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I've heard enough scary stories about how get rust off the eyeball that I Always use a full face shield. I hang it on the band saw to prevent me from using the saw without it. There's been several times that I've been cutting something and watched a piece fly off - way too fast to get out of the way - and go "wack", right in front of my eyes.

Getting a tiny steel shard in the eyeball is far more dangerous to eyesight than many people think! The ensuing rust is very, very bad news! Glad you're recovering.

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Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

Serves me right for watching "My Cousin Vinny" too many times. I was referring to your son!

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William Conway
Building the Spartan 7 - Build Blog
LocostUSA Build Log
How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time...

Ohhh! Youth! Now it makes even more sense!!

Glad to hear you are healing up well. I took a shard of metal to the eye once that embeded itself in my disposable soft contact lens. I was wearing safety glasses too. Who would've thought of contacts as a second line of defense? I got lucky.


When I was in school a long time ago they showed a safety video where this official looking guy in a white lab coat went around a factory and approached the workers he saw not wearing saftely glasses. He offered each of them a million dollars for their eyes as he said he needed them for a science experiment. He found no takers. When they would tell him no he would reply, "if you value your eyesight so, you should wear your safety glasses" and they would all grin like idiots. Eyesight is priceless.

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He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.

Still healing...

I did get the front and rear subframes out, and the wiring harness with all of its myriad of labels!

I'll post more pics in a bit. Meanwhile, I need to get the pedal assembly and the gas tank out, then I'm done with the donor!

Randy

I finished the donor! I removed the wiring, the e-brake, the fuel tank and the pedal assemblies. It'll be nice when it's out of the garage! Amazing how light it is stripped.

Here are the rest of the pics of the donor disassembly:


Front subframe






Rear subframe


Wiring harness all labeled


Maybe I need a bigger box, eh?


Off the hoist waiting for a cleaning and rear seal


I'll use that gas pedal I think


Clutch - won't use that


Rear subframe sans PPF


I'm going to try to use this with a Wilwood or Tilton clutch


Let's see how this looks back there...


Not bad...






Looks like I'll need to raise it to get the right ride height



Now I just need to figure out what to do with the rear - I think that is what I'm going to tackle next. I'd love to do a Westfield type design - something like Stein's build - but the rear Miata subframe is tempting. Does anyone know how much weight they put in doing a 1" square rear IRS? I'd love to have a direct comparison to make a good decision.

I can remember that the subframe weighed about 40 lbs, with the rear swaybar on it and nothing else. The A arms are pretty heavy for A arms, but probably are within a couple pounds of what my custom made ones weight. If that bothers you, jig them and make your own the same geometry. The only downside I see to using the Miata rear subframe is the shortening of the wheelbase that is necessary, and that is pretty minor.

Without debate are the following two facts. It is a huge time saver and you are guaranteed it will work, probably at least as well as anything most of us could design.

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He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.

Why would you have to shorten the wheelbase? Can't you just put it where you want to?

I have decided to build my own rear subframe to save some weight and put things where I want them.

I took the rear subframe and raised it to get the ride height where I wanted it, then took lots of measurements with double levels, squares and some metric rulers. I now see what Chet was saying about the stock subframe, as when you put it close to where the book wheelbase would be, the front corners of the subframe are well intruding into the cockpit. I took pictures that I will post soon.

I plan to do something similar to the Westfield, with the measurements I took from the Miata rear subframe.

Here are the measurements that show the locations for the diff and a-arm mounting points.

Lower Control Arm



A. Rear lower inner mount point
X= 145mm/5.71" behind axle cL at diff, 165mm/6.5" behind axle cL at hub, 360mm/14.71" from B1
Y= 60mm/2.36" from table surface, -100mm/-3.94" from hub cL, 225mm/8.86" from ground
Z= 250mm/9.84" from chassis cL, 492mm/19.40" from hub wheel mount

B. Rear lower outer mount point (at upright)
X= 12mm/.47" behind axle cL at diff, 8mm/.31" ahead of axle cL at hub, 240mm/9.45" from B1
Y= 25mm/.98" from table surface, -135mm/-5.32" from hub cL, 190mm/7.48" from ground
Z= 635mm/25.00" from chassis cL, 107mm/4.21" from hub wheel mount

C. Forward lower inner mount point
X= 175mm/6.89" ahead of axle cL at diff, 155mm/6.1" ahead of axle cL at hub, 55mm/2.17" from B1
Y= 62mm/2.44" from table surface, -98mm/-3.86" from hub cL, 227mm/8.94" from ground
Z= 249mm/9.84" from chassis cL, 493mm/19.41" from hub wheel mount

D. Forward lower outer mount point (at upright)
X= 90mm/3.54" ahead of axle cL at diff, 70mm/2.76" ahead of axle cL at hub, 151mm/5.94" from B1
Y= 25mm/.98" from table surface, -135mm/-5.32" from hub cL, 190mm/7.48" from ground
Z= 635mm/25.00" from chassis cL, 493mm/19.41" from hub wheel mount

Upper Control Arm



A. Rear upper inner mount point
X= 50mm/1.97" behind axle cL at diff, 70mm/2.76" behind axle cL at hub, 160mm/6.30" behind plane of K3/K4
Y= 246mm/9.69" from table surface, 86mm/3.39" from hub cL, 411mm/16.18" from ground
Z= 390mm/15.35" from chassis cL, 352mm/13.86" from hub wheel mount

B. Rear upper outer mount point (at upright)
X= 35mm/1.38" ahead of axle cL at diff, 15mm/.59" ahead of axle cL at hub, 125mm/4.92" from plane of K3/K4
Y= 240mm/9.45" from table surface, 80mm/3.15" from hub cL, 405mm/15.95" from ground
Z= 600mm/23.62" from chassis cL, 142mm/5.59" from hub wheel mount

C. Forward upper inner
X= 130mm/5.12" ahead of axle cL at diff, 110mm/4.33" ahead of axle cL at hub, 15mm/.59" from plane of K3/K4
Y= 246mm/9.69" from table surface, 86mm/3.39" from hub cL, 411mm/16.18" from ground
Z= 390mm/15.35" from chassis cL, 352mm/13.86" from hub wheel mount

D. Forward upper outer (at upright)
X= 90mm/3.54" ahead of axle cL at diff, 70mm/2.76" ahead of axle cL at hub, 68mm/2.68" from plane of K3/K4
Y= 240mm/9.45" from table surface, 80mm/3.15" from hub cL, 405mm/15.95" from ground
Z= 600mm/23.62" from chassis cL, 142mm/5.59" from hub wheel mount

Differential Mounts

X= 150mm from plane of K3/K4 (outermost)
Y= 290mm from table surface (mounts are above diff)
Z= 305mm from chassis cL, 437mm from hub wheel mount

Other Measurements Figured
Axle cL at hub 20mm forward of axle cL at diff
Hub center 160mm/6.30" above ground
Hub center wheel mount surface to chassis cL 742mm/29.21"
Heim joint thickness 19mm
Ride height 165mm/6.5" from ground to bottom of frame rail (which is also table surface)

So now all I have to do is build the frame to get these points! Again, I plan to follow as closely as possible the Westfield design, but some changes may be needed to accommodate the Miata subframe numbers. I'll take plenty of pictures and measurements as I go.

Randy

OK, I am doing more math and applying it to wishbone as well. I have to change some of the orientations, and will post up the results shortly. I also changed X and Z above, which I had switched.

Randy

I hope you aren't using my rear upright measurements posted somewhere on this board. After building to my plans I made using those measurements I found that the upper upright pivot (the rubber bushed one) was .6" farther forward than I had measured. (and posted) I chalked it up to fabrication error then found the same discrepancy on the other side. It wasn't a big deal to fix, but I did have to cut up and reweld my upper rear A arms.

I meant to find that post and fix it. I really need to do that. I like your design ideas. It's gonna be sweet.

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He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.

Thanks for the info - I measured everything off of the rear subframe in place on the book frame, so I'm good.

There is a lot more to it, and I have to go back and figure out what the X, Y and Z axis are based from in wishbone.

I will post the revisions with all dimensions in the above post. Then I just need to figure out what to plug into wishbone.

Thanks - I hope it will be sweet after all the time I spent on it today!

Randy

OK, all of the new measurements and conversions are above.

Does anyone know the specifics of the X, Y and Z axis reference points for wishbone?

Thanks!
Randy

X is foe and aft with 0 being at the center of the wheel.
Y is height measured up from the ground.
Z is the width with 0 at the centerline of the chassis.

All taken from the help screen in wishbone.

Gene

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1987 Fiero Caddy V-8 Powered
1994 Vulcan 1500 2 wheeler
SHO Powered Locost coming to a street near you Summer 2009 uhh 2012/2013????.
http://www.scrabblegod.com/locost

Thanks Gene, I had looked in the help, but didn't see the reference points. I think it's that black screen background!

I added the reference to the ground using the 6.5" ride height on the Y axis.

Randy