LocostUSA.com

Yo, Chuck, quit sniffin' that stuff and pay attention!

So true, so true... Both from a "Mixing" viewpoint and a "Layup" viewpoint. The mixing amount is tricky, and hard to "guesstimate" with any accuracy. I also find that knowing how "wet" to make a particular layup is also 1) A Black Art and 2) Critical to the strength and/or texture and weight of that layup. And, thinking back thru the process, if you do a "too wet" layup, you're liable to run short on mixed resin!

Now that I'm almost done with making the body parts, I think I'm finally getting a handle on how wet to make it, and the answer is mostly that I used entirely too much resin on all of my early attempts. ("Early" = Up to and including the ones I'm gonna do tomorrow.)

So... What does Suzy look like???

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

Just don't fiberglass yourself into the part, or the part onto you.

You can figure the amounts if you want. It means measuring/calculating what a square foot of your layup weighs per layer. it's likely about 60% resin. You go from there. You can also calculate strengths like that. Measure / calculate the strength of a 1" strip of a layer of your material and go from there.

It would often just come down to what amounts are convenient to mix or deal with. It's easier to mix amounts of epoxy in different sizes. I used to use pumps etc. and then just converted to using a scale. With the catlyst make sure you calculate ahead of time the right amounts for a couple of sizes so that you don't have to scratch your head with resin/glass covered hands while sweating bullets and being have exhausted from bending over and carefully working resin into your materials. The longer I did this the better I got at making less mess. Less mess means a much easier and smooth workflow.

Make sure you have plenty of everything you need, disposable gloves, brushes, stirrers, cups, squeegees etc.. Do not use any cleaning fluids like acetone on yourself.

Look forward to seeing your results

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.

Horizenjob wrote:

But I fixed it for him:

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

I guess we got a bit off track. Thanks to JDK for putting us back on the rails. (not)

Now for JDK, and ONLY JDK, you should have read earlier, "Come back next week when we will find out:" Evidently, you can't wait for 7 short days, (some sort of immediate gratification issues at hand?) So for an assignment, I want you to Google Images for "little Suzy" and report back to the rest of us what you find. I really don't want that "stuff" all over my hard drive!.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

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Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE

And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766

Chuck
I've used a lot of West System stuff which because of the pump dispensers solves the mix ratio problem but it is expensive and you need to use up a kit in a short amount of time.

Oh My Gawdddd... "Little Suzy" is all grown up, and has apparently gone very, very wrong since we last saw her!!!! Trust me, Googling "Little Suzy" is NOT something to do if you're at work or there are kids and wives around... Little Suzy is probably on the page for that "GoTopless.Org" site that G03 warned us about...

However, back at the Fiberglass discussion...
I'm a devotee of the West System, personally. It's available from my local West Marine retail in small-medium-and large sizes. It isn't cheap, but I do love those measuring pumps! That feature alone sells it to me. If you can count , you can get the right mix, every time! Not to be combative with Vroom about it, but I've not had any problems with its "shelf life", even to going a month or more between usages. Different situations, temps, moisture, etc, and I don't know his experience with it, exactly.

Moot point, I guess, as you've got a local supply of poly resin that you like, but just tossin' out ideas for other folks.

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

I like the West system also. That is what i used over my pink foam. I bought it 2 or 3 years ago so the hardner had turned dark red, almost black, but it still worked great. You are right about the cost of the stuff and you can't use it with any chop mat that i could find.
Gale

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PHOTOS OF THE PROJECT
http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery ... emId=23737

Pictures, Chuck? Quite interested to see how all the "Witches Brew" of materials is coming along.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

Hi Gale-
I've never let any of the stuff sit quite that long, but it's good to know!

I have read in several places that "epoxy resin can't be used with chop mat fiberglass" or words to that effect. I've never tried it, as I didn't plan to lay up mat to begin with. I think the West stuff is kinda tailor-made to go with cloth layups, possibly because that's what the average boat-owner would do with it. (I guess?)

According to the folks I've talked to at Thayer ('glass supplier I use) there are even certain types of "finishes" on the cloth that are supposed to be used with epoxy resin or polyester. http://thayercraft.com/finishes.htm

Again, I know I'm probably "preaching to the choir" but tossin' out info for other folks.

JD

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

Before Jack made it official, I was making plans to (eventually) use foam core to do a Lola-style body.

Okay, please, stop laughing...

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

I'm not laughing... Got too much epoxy resin accumulated in my mustache to laugh...
(I might be gigglin' a lot though!)

Not laughing at all, really. You could do it, given the time and if you possess the patience. It's not really hard, just slow and kinda tedious work, like all body-fender work is. As many curves as that Lola body has, or most any 60's sports-racer, it would take a while to create and be tough to get truly symmetrical. But again, you could do it if you really, really wanted to.


JD "If I can, then damn near anybody can" Kemp

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

Damn I threw mine out when it turned black.

All this talk about the West Marine Epoxy System......

Anyway, back to my lowly polyester resin experiment. Before I got too far invested, I thought I'd test my painted pink styrofoam before I had a catstrophic failure. Since acetone is a major part of polyester resin and it's the recommended thinner and cleanup solvent, I put a drop on my freshly painted, 5 coats of water-based paint with 2 coats of carnuba wax. I put a drop of acetone in the surface and promptly found that the acetone is a great paint stripper. I can't say you didn't warn me. So, I went into the house and tried it on some regular wall paint in an undisclosed area. That too was rather quickly disolved. Hmmmm.....

So change of plans. I have read that aluminum duct tape works well as a barrier. But that brought to mind something else, Polypropylene packaging tape (3M). I tested the acetone on that and Viola! no issues. Further research has indicated that polypropylene is acetone resistant. Heck they even blowmold fuel tanks from the stuff. So I'm off this morning to get a roll of packaging tape. I will cover the bucks strip by strip and never look back. Yeah the adhesive may be affected but if I overlap the strips by 1/4" or so. without a place for the goo to go, it should be good to go. I may even wax the tape before layup.

So, I talked earlier about my choice to use a local supply of Polyester resin and not knowing the amount of resin I will need. I was planning on 3M Bondo Fiberglass Resin at just under $12 a qt. at my local Menard's. That makes it $48/gallon with no shipping charges and immediate delivery. They are usually limited on the number of cans they have on the shelf at any one time. Not a great price but it matches or beats the best delivered gallon prices of resin I can find on the 'net. I have calculated that I will need slightly over 1 gallon. And Menard's doesn't carry it in gallon containers. I found that Home Depot sells Bondo "Home Solutions" resin in 1 gallon containers for 36 bucks. It is a different label style, so what exactly is it? Menards is 1/2 mile away and HD is 2 miles, so it is a toss of the coin. I usually choose Menard's. However, I was wondering if they are the same stuff just packaged differently and a differnt trad name....... So I shot off an e-mail last night to 3M (the owners of the Bondo brand and asked if they were the same or at least compatible.

This was their reply:

Must just be labeling BS by 3M for different target markets. So I know now that I can buy the gallon at HD at a lower price and then purchase the quarts quickly if necessary. Funny, HD has the Home Solutions in quarts too but they are $3 more per qt that Menard's. I know it is just a few dollars different and won't break the bank either way but that is a weeks worth of "senior coffee" (50yrs and over, if you didn't know it already) at McDonald's per quart. And MD's coffe is pretty good. Just thought I'd share this bit of tech info for future DIY'ers.

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Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE

And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766

Yo Chuck-
It's interesting that a different label a couple of miles apart makes a price difference. (we've seen as much difference in food items between the North side and South side Walmarts in town!)

I too have found that acetone will dissolve darn near anything, but I've never thought to check it on tape. Cool idea, I hope it works out for you. Like you mention, I'd be concerned about acetone/resin "seeping" under the edges of the tape. A good overlap should help.

Good write up, good analysis... And then ya had to go and blow your credibility by saying McD's has "good coffee." PM me your address and I'll ship ya some Community Coffee w/ Chicory, from New Orleans. Now THAT's good coffee. (And damn near as powerful as Acetone, too!)

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

Thanks for the offer JD, but there is no need to send coffee. But if you're in the mood to send something, I could use some $$ I have tried many kinds of coffee and they taste very different from place to place. Growing conditions are different and people have different tastes. Regardless, Mickey D's still rates very high in most taste tests. But it is still tough to beat good ol' Dunkin Donuts. Point was: 5 cups of coffee per week per quart of resin.........

I went to HD yesterday for the gallon jug of resin. They didn't have "Bondo - Home Essentials" #20124 resin, they had "3M Fiberglass resin" #20124. It was an industrial-looking gray and red can with no graphics of cars or houses or boats on the can. The same stuff in yet another can marking! Still just under 36 buckeroos. I'm now ready to do some fiberglassing either today or in the cool of the morning tomorrow. We'll see if I can be patient.

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Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my ongoing MGB Rustoration log: over HERE

Or my Wankel powered Locost log : over HERE

And don't forget my Cushman Truckster resto Locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=17766