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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:53 am 
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Dave,

My 1st tank, I built a sump. It worked well. Unfortunately, I needed the extra space that the higher floor took up, for more gallons. I don't plan on competetive autocross, maybe a few fun days. So the baffles are a required evil. I'll limit the size of the corner notches.

RX'7's normally inject crank oil in the combustion chamber. One popular mod is, as you say, setup a dedicated oil tank to feed the injector pump. This way you can use oil designed to be in the combustion chamber (i.e. 2-cycle oil). In my case, the injector pump was controlled by a stepper motor driven from the factory ECU. My Megasquirt did not accomodate the stepper motor drive. As a result, I am left to premixing 1 oz per gallon TC-W3 oil with my gas. I'd like for that to disperse evenly during fillup.

Hinges are out of the question. If I ever decide to coat the inside of the tank, ...... you get the rest :cheers:

Can you comment on this sketch?
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Lonnie, I have spent a lot of time and done some fairly deep google searches just to find a lot of gray info about the "sins" and benefits of E10 and higher. Most of it from people with no real experience or technical background. They just repeat what they have heard, not scientific enough for me. Or our government proponents of E15 who don't consider that cars older than, say, 15 years old are on our roads, let alone our home-built cars with fuel systems that replicate cars that old. The rest is from scare-mongrels or shills with a snake-oil solution to your problems, just send $19.95 plus S&H.

What I have not seen is anybody that can definitively say thet E10 (E15 or higher) is worse or better than the old 100% gas as far as rusting of steel tanks goes. I am no stranger to old-school gasoline with ounces of water resting at the bottom of tanks/carb bowls, etc. One "fix" back then was to just add ethanol (Heet) to absorb the water in the tank and burn it off. Can't really do that today. In the early 70's, I used to check the underground tanks at the gas station daily for water using some "paste" spread on the end of the 10' long dip-stick. But that was before any Ethanol was blended in our gas. From what I can tell, the primary problems with Ethanol is it attacks aluminum, rubber and plastic parts, polyester resin in fiberglass tanks and too much water can cause phase separation. The Ethanol itself (I think) is fairly benign to steel, not so much toward Zinc which is in galvanizing. When phase separation occurs, it lowers the octane of the remaining gas, and the ethanol/water part will burn lean, if at all. I still can't find anyone saying today's fuel is better or worse than previous. I have seen a lot of rusted out gas tanks in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

I think I'll take the easy (locost) way out and just leave it uncoated. This way if it rusts out in 20 years, I'll have a fuel tank to replace. The alternative is that if any coating I put in it fails, I'll have a tank, pump, filter, injectors, regulator, fuel lines, .... to replace. I call it a life-cycle engineering decision. Oh wait, 20 years from now I'll be how old? I probably will not be replacing the tank - ever. Never mind!

Chuck

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:02 pm 
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Hot dip galvanizer in your area?

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca ... 6F04HUSmcw

See chart on page 176.

Also:

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/96 ... -9607.html

Search pdf for "galvanized"': http://www.oregon.gov/ENERGY/RENEW/Biom ... e.pdf?ga=t

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/41853.pdf

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Actually I don't have any experience with ethanol but the British blogs (Moss) seem to talk about it a lot. I wouldn't worry about the thing leaking but I would worry about crap getting in your lines. My old ('70-'71) Central Steel book has terne plated sheet listed for use in tank mfg. Terne was a tin and lead coating. My newer ('86-'87) CS book doesn't list the stuff. I have seem terne on roofs it looks a lot like clean steel. I am sure there is some SAE standard for gas tanks but I don't have access to that stuff any more. SAE members ????


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:48 pm 
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As usual, I seem to flitter back and forth in different areas of the car. I have cut out the recessed battery box and welded in flat sheet metal in its place. I am about 75% done with the new battery holder for the PC680 battery. The base is done and ready to be welded onto the new shelf. the hold-down bracket will follow tomorrow.

In the effort to mount the tank, I temporarily removed the reverse lights. I knew I had interference and would have to cut off the rubber boot inside the body. When I cut the rear boot, the electrical terminal in the socket still interferred with the new tank. I really like the vintage Lucas lights and want to keep them. I found a 1" dia LED module on e-Bay that I will try to install in place of the bulb and its mount, keeping the lens, shortened rubber boot and chrome ring. I will document that later when i get the LEDs.

I have to get to moding the fuel pump assy to fit the new tank.

No more news, sadly. :(

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:38 am 
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I completed the battery hold down bracket, got the base welded in and everything painted. Before and after photos are as shown. It really increases the passenger footwell area. Which, in turn, increases dry storage area :idea: I should have gone with this design in the first place. I was taking the "low-cost" theme too literally by trying to re-use the donor's battery! :BH: Warning: don't do this at home.

I am now working on the fuel pickup (finally) :cheers:


BEFORE:
Image


AFTER:
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:52 am 
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Yo Chuck-
Good work, Sir! I like the "flat mounted" small battery idea, definitely makes more room for the passenger's knees. (And we wouldn't want to ruin the pantyhose on those knees, now would we?)

Hmmm... Wonder if one of those little batteries would crank a Ford V8? Maybe two of them? Oddly enough, that subject came up yesterday at Slotus Engineering HQ, during a discussion of placing the battery to best help with balancing the car. I currently have a full-sized automotive Optima (dry cell) that I'd been planning on using, but... Any thoughts on the power output of your battery -vs- needs of starting a big engine?

:cheers:
JDK

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"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:25 am 
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Heck I don't even know yet how it will turn my rotary. Rotaries are very picky about RPM during start conditions. I suspect it will be OK as many RX'ers use them. According to the specs it has a CCA rating of 220. I don't know how many of us will actually try to start under those 0 deg F temperatures though. I don't know the actual cranking requirement on an engine by engine basis.

I see a lot of V8 users out there on the interweb. Here is just one accolade from jalopyjournal http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-600302.html
Quote:
Here is vote number 5 for the Odyssey PC680. Had one in my 23 and it was flawless.........could sit for months and still crank the 350 engine with no problems. Only measures 7 x 7 x3 inches and tucks anywhere.


A friend of mine races Formula Vee. He uses the same physial size VRLA battery, a 12V17AH Panasonic that he uses all day long. He has no generator to recharge it while running. All electrics are powered for the day from a single initial charge; ignition and starter rain lights brakes lights etc. are all from that little battery.


Nothing wrong with the Optimas either. Just bigger with proportionally more power. My recommendation would be... ummmm.... flipping a coin now.... HEADS it is! The nod goes to the PC680. Warning: This coin toss test may give you different results.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:00 am 
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Quote:
Heck I don't even know yet how it will turn my rotary.


Yo, Chuck-
Now that's an answer worthy of Slotus engineering! :mrgreen: You get an A+ for honesty!!!

I don't know the battery spec's on any particular engine either. I plan on using an alternator on the Slotus, so the length of time the battery will hold charge isn't really an issue, just the cranking. As a race-car, it likely won't get cranked up every day, more like once every weekend that I'm not racing and numerous times during those "special" weekends.

Thanks for the link to the forum discussion. I'll do a bit more reasearchin' on battery stuff...

Regards-
JDK

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"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:59 pm 
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rx7locost wrote:
I completed the battery hold down bracket, got the base welded in and everything painted. Before and after photos are as shown. It really increases the passenger footwell area. Which, in turn, increases dry storage area :idea: I should have gone with this design in the first place. I was taking the "low-cost" theme too literally by trying to re-use the donor's battery! :BH: Warning: don't do this at home.


Hmmmm, I was contemplating doing your 'before' design based on seeing your build. I thought it was a good solution. The other option was going to be behind the passenger side of the seatback just in front of the live axle, but inboard of the suspension. I'm not sure the donor battery (I saved it as it was almost new) will actually fit there for sure, so that was always a "maybe." I have a V6 and there will likely not be enough room down low in front of the footwell because of the exhaust headers.

How much space did you loose in the passenger footwell? Was it a case of the passenger's legs actually hitting the bottom of the battery tray or just a psychological factor of having something too close to their legs to feel comfortable?

Thanks,

Lonnie

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:04 pm 
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Quote:
How much space did you loose in the passenger footwell? Was it a case of the passenger's legs actually hitting the bottom of the battery tray or just a psychological factor of having something too close to their legs to feel comfortable?


Well, my wife (5'6") my friend (6' something - long torso - short legs) and (myself 5'8") all were prevented from fully extending our legs while in the passenger seat. Toes were either against the box, or flat on the floor. Not comfortable for hours of driving. Further, with the ankles always being bent back, there was not room to extend the toes to stretch. I had maybe 4" space under the battery and only a few inches toward the outside of the car. It was most decidedly not purely a psychological thing.

I would recommend if you plan to have passengers, find some other place to locate the battery. But that is just my experience.

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:02 pm 
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As promised, this is my write up on the LED conversion of Lucas L594 reverse lights. I had to make this conversion because the original Lucas lamps intruded too far into the rear section of the car and interfered with my new gas tank.

The construction of the lamp assembly contains 4 main parts, a rubber boot/ housing, the metal lamp socket assembly, the lens and a trim ring. Sockets are normally available in1 and 2 filament styles (1156 and 1157 bulbs). The lens comes in many colors and in the beehive and flat shapes. In my example, I have a single filament (L594) base with a clear flat glass lens.

The boot and socket extend thru the body and the boot forms a water resistant seal from behind. The socket fits against the boot and the two are held to the car with 3 screws into the sheet metal. It was this boot (and the socket too) that was too intrusive so I cut all but ~1/4 inch off the back end of the boot. This maintained the mechanical functionality of the part, but not the water proofing. The boot is the part that holds the lens and trim ring together. They just slip into some undercut grooves and the rubber lip just holds them in place. This part was not changed.

I purchased a pair of LED modules intended for use in RV’s and under-cabinet lighting on eBay. They were about 7 bucks for the pair. They are ~1” diameter and come with a header soldered in place for plugging into a socket. Plenty small enough to fit into the assembly and flat enough to fit under the flat lens. The modules have a full-wave bridge on the wiring input so wiring polarity is not important. I de-soldered the header and replaced it with a couple of lengths of automotive wire. The wires were hot-glued to the circuit board as a strain relief. One wire was terminated with a spade terminal that goes under the head of one of the three mounting screws. The other wire feeds thru the back of the mounting plate to the car’s wiring. The mounting plate is made to replace the socket assembly with the same mounting hole locations and a ¼” hole in the middle for the wire to pass thru. The wire that goes thru the back is hot glued in place to seal the hole in mounting plate. Again, which wire goes where is unimportant with my module.
Each LED module is mounted to the steel plate using 3 pieces cut from a rubber washer as standoffs and some epoxy. Do not use RTV unless you get the non-Acetic acid (acid free) type.

The rest, as they say, is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.

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Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Check out my rotary build log: click here


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:32 am 
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Very cool, Chuck... As usual, your workmanship is excellent. Good "instruction manual" write-up too. :mrgreen:

Thanks for posting this!
:cheers:

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
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"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:35 am 
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GonzoRacer wrote:
Very cool, Chuck... As usual, your workmanship is excellent. Good "instruction manual" write-up too. :mrgreen:

Thanks for posting this!
:cheers:
+1 on the write up. I want to do some slim line stuff like this for this and other parts of the car. Especially on the roll bar for a 3rd light type of thing.

As they were under counter lights, I'd guess the lumens are pretty low, so is this for a VC requirement (wouldn't think backing up in these cars is ever an issue!) or do they really have some umph behind them?

I'll have to look and see if there are other configurations of these. I really like the packaging!

Thanks for the info and ideas!

Cheers!

KS

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:05 am 
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Thanks guys.

A far as Vehicle Code, I am registered as a 1960 model year so I have no legal requirements for backup lights, or seat belts for that matter. But my donor had them, the tranny has the switch, I had the Lucas assemblies so I figured, "Why not?" It was only when I went to build a new gas tank that I needed some of the space that the standard Lucas lights were using. Rather than remove them and have holes in the rear body, I did the next best thing. I rolled my own so to speak.

They are fairly bright for what they are, at 12V, 0.9W and 140 lumens. Different 1156 incandescent bulbs are rated between 200 and 450 lumens, so it is a bit less than that. It is also about the same light output as a 10W halogen bi-pin bulb used in undercabinet lighting. So that should be a match. I was running 5007 bulbs which are ~1/5th the output of the 1156. The LED's are brighter than those. I guess it comes down to how much light do you want?

Here is the ebay link:http://www.ebay.com/itm/160730269783?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Could have gotten them cheaper by buying from one of the Hong Kong/China vendors, which I normally will do, but didn't want to wait 3 weeks this time to get them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:21 pm 
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Lookin Good Chuck!

Will it be ready for the British Car Union in Sept?


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