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PostPosted: April 22, 2017, 11:40 am 
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OK, I'm on to Plan B (Version #694) with respect to the tunnel. I got everything cut, and had things planned out, but it just didn't "feel right." I felt I could do better and never really liked the idea of stuff penetrating into the cockpit anyway. Plus it would have been an absolute bear to repair and replace things once the car was built. I postponed welding things in place for a few days, while I gave it all a big "think-think."

Unknown to everyone out there, I had planned the brackets for a rear anti-roll bar, and it would have run right across the tunnel opening at its top. It would be a big conflict for all the stuff coming out of the tunnel and needing to climb up the chassis over the rear axle. I don't know for sure if I'll actually need that anti-roll bar, but putting it in after the car is built would be a lot harder than doing it now.

So, I decided to not build the anti-roll bar bracketry right now and look at the possibility of putting it at the rear of the axle instead. There may not be enough of a lever arm length to make it workable, but I may find a workable location in front of the axle later. My initial thought is to look at moving from the red location to the blue location in the photo.
Attachment:
Anti-roll Bar Location.jpg


So, I'm going to re-examine how to run things in the tunnel now that this obstacle has been removed.

Cheers,


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: April 22, 2017, 8:55 pm 
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On to some new work. Here's where I got to today, and the steps involved:
Attachment:
DSC03698.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03699.JPG

I'm trying out these little boogers: weld-in table for 10-32 screws. They are off set, so they can get the screw hole close to corners. I like the fact that the weld area is far removed from the threads.
Attachment:
DSC03694.JPG

I made up several sizes of tabs on Bristol Board and tried them out in various locations.
Attachment:
DSC03695.JPG

I laid out a pattern of them on a small piece of 16 gauge C/R steel. You drill a 1/4" hole, but have to file it down smooth. I reamed it round too just because that's the way I like to do things.
Attachment:
DSC03692.JPG

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DSC03693.JPG

Tack up the tabs to the back of the tabs, bandsaw them apart, and round the sharp corners.
Attachment:
DSC03696.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03697.JPG

I allowed for an electric bundle of 1/2" diameter. This is just for the stuff at the rear of the car (tail lights, turn indicators, license plate light, trunk light, backup light, etc.) for this tab. I think I'm going to a spare 3/8" set of Adel clips along with the brake lines for future instrumentation and data logging, should I decide to go that way.

Cheers,


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: April 22, 2017, 10:54 pm 
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Looks good. I've got the same clips, just haven't made the backer board yet.

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PostPosted: April 23, 2017, 11:15 am 
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Lonnie, Just curious, Why didn't you just weld the weldnuts to the vertical frame tube overhanging the edge and skip the added "backer board"?

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PostPosted: April 24, 2017, 3:20 pm 
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@rx7locost
Hi Chuck,

In a two words, durability, and future growth. Well, I guess that's three words, isn't it?

The base of those tabs is quite small. There will be a lot of vibration and small stresses on the lines and wire bundle over time. The backing plates will be welded over a pretty wide base and they're not going to come off. The small tabs very well might. Also, if I want to make future changes, it would be very difficult to have the correct access to weld up new things in the tunnel. I have plenty of room to add/rearrange things with the backing plates.

I'll be welding in 16 gauge sheets over most of the transmission tunnel. I can now weld on the back sides of the backing plates & fix them right to the tunnel structure in a major way. There's no way I'll get the MIG torch and my hands into that tunnel later.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: April 27, 2017, 10:47 am 
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It's been a very good week, and quite productive, but not picture worthy. It's been all about dull, but critical, stuff like brackets for the various lines, paneling the tunnel and similar kinds of things. Letting go of the rear anti-roll bar (for the moment) has cleared up space for some other items like the emergency brake kit from Control Cable. My patience with respect to not welding in some of the 14 gauge infill panels is paying off. Not locking myself into a particular configuration has left room for new solutions now that some space has opened up. And, I even subsequently thought of a way to do the anti-roll bar too, but I'll get all of the essential things in place first before I try it out.

I do have some exciting things on the horizon over the next few days. There's a fellow from Milwaukee I met on one of the Mustang forums who is visiting my area. He has a 4.3L version of the V6 I have (4.2L crank + 0.030 overbore) that he wants to sell. He's built it up with first class aftermarket rods, pistons, camshaft, ported and polished cylinder heads, and so on. He want to preserve some items for his next engine build. So we're going to go through my stash of '94/'97 engine and parts, plus the complete 2001 3.8L I bought for $80 a while back, and see if we can work out a mutually satisfactory deal. I would be able to make a complete 4.3L engine at a bargain price, and he would have a cash infusion for his new engine work. That would set me up for my Phase II effort after I get the donor engine installed, working and registered.

I'm taking two afternoons next week to take some classes at our local library. They have a new center they call the "Tech Hub" with a 3D printer, Arduino design/fab lab and a 2D, laser pattern cutter. You need to take the classes to be able to use the equipment, but thereafter, you can also design stuff with your own software (or their lab) and then bring the files down on a thumb drive for them to load, and you to execute. Long term, I hope that will open of opportunities to make patterns for casting or custom lay-up. We'll have to see what the capabilities the facilities offer.

Have a good weekend.

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 10, 2017, 9:11 pm 
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I'm still working away pretty steadily on my build. My current tasks are all "infrastructure" related and not too picture worthy. They do take a lot of time as I'm solving problems as I go, so trying out alternatives even if just in paper/cardboard prototype form. Additionally, I live near the ocean and if something is going to be left in bare metal, I can only go 2-3 days with out putting primer on it. That makes for more work later as I typically have to wire brush off the paint, then clean the metal completely with acetone before I can weld on it again. It's getting pretty repetitive. :ack: However, I want to have as much done as possible before I take it off the rotiseree and put it back on the build table for its final fit-out.

Here's a typical example of what I'm doing. I needed to put "dog legs" in the tunnel to provide enough room for the large (same as a Ford V8) bell housing. At the same time, I couldn't run a straight tube backwards from the widest point unless I wanted to give up another 2-3 inches for both the driver's and passenger's side footwell, which I didn't want to do. It would have taken me into less than 12" on each side for controls and that was too little, I felt.
Attachment:
DSC03701.JPG


I had always planned on "triangulating" this area externally on the underside of the car. The gussets should do most of the job, but this area takes a lot of stress according to the Wesley Linton Analysis, which was done on a Luego chassis, a slightly modified "Book" chassis. To that triangulation, I planned to add a cross member, which would essentially be at the beginning of the tunnel proper. I tried a number of configurations, but felt they would be too close to the roadway. I elected to concentrate on the local triangulation of the dog legs and leave the crossmember as a future development if it proved necessary.

I tried a couple of different methods using ready-made RHS and plate, but all were too bulky. Thereafter, I decided to take a 1" x 1-1/2", 14 gauge RHS piece I had on hand and split it into two channels like so:
Attachment:
DSC03704.JPG


Here's a right-side-up view of the dog legs after I drilled the holes laid out previously. This is the driver's side of the car, if that isn't readily apparent to you.
Attachment:
DSC03705.JPG


Here's my first round set-up on each side of the tunnel. Note that I've welded a large tab in place to pick up the forward gusset, located in the engine compartment. In the completed car, there will be a 16 gauge undertray welded in place. These trianngulation channels will be on the roadway side of that undertray, if that wasn't already obvious to you.
Attachment:
DSC03706.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03710.JPG


Another problem I was trying to solve was the location of the rear brake lines in the area between the engine compartment firewall and the tunnel behind the transmission mounts. My engine and transmission go in as a unit. There's a lot of stuff moving around as they go in and it's a super tight fit to get it in. My major concern was pinching off the brake line due to a collision with the transmission or bellhousing. Running the line through the dog leg would be risky as it is very exposed (and tight) at installation time. My second reason for the channel was to provide a protected path for the rear brake lines, and avoid routing it through the dog leg. The channel provides that protected path for me now.

Providing a path, yet not having the channel protrude into the tunnel itself required some shaping and trimming as here:
Attachment:
DSC03709.JPG


Here's the completed driver's side with the channel reshaped to protect and carry the rear brake line.
Attachment:
DSC03712.JPG


Both sides are trimmed and trial fitted in this photo.
Attachment:
DSC03714.JPG


Here's a sequence of photos showing how the brake line routing works:
Attachment:
Brake Line Channel 3.jpg

Attachment:
Brake Line Channel 4.jpg

Attachment:
Brake Line Channel.jpg

Attachment:
Brake Line Channel 2.jpg


So, there you have an example of the things I'm working on. Next is the emergency brake system and then the pedal box and 16 gauge transmission tunnel paneling.

Cheers,


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 20, 2017, 12:40 am 
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It was a bit of a slow week. My wife was pretty sick with one of those "fair weather colds" that comes out of nowhere during warm and sunny weather. I had to pick up the slack here around El Rancho, which cut down appreciably on my garage time. However, we made some progress.

My abandonment of the routing of line through the rear of the tunnel topsides made the inclusion of some emergency brake gear there possible. This revised plan for tunnel infrastructure is a much better one I must say.

I purchased a complete emergency brake kit from a company called Control Cable from here in Southern California. It has 3 primary parts: 1) the emergency brake handle and ratchet mechanism; 2) a mount and primary cable bracket for the handle; and a splitter bracket that takes the primary cable into the two individual rear brakes on the rear axle. The splitter also carries the cable adjuster mechanism.

I located the splitter where the fuel, battery and electrics would have been routed using the first plan. Here it is outside the car, and then with the brackets welded in:
Attachment:
DSC03719.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03721.JPG



It makes more sense when you see it from the rear of the tunnel:
Attachment:
DSC03730.JPG


The front two parts took some thought and careful noodling. My tunnel is super narrow by design, so that wider seats can be built. That makes it very crowded, and space is really at a premium. I also needed everything to be "top loading" for final assembly and on-going maintenance. Plus, I had to keep the brake lever low enough to stay clear of the T5 gear shift, but not so low as to risk contacting the driveshaft at full bump.

Additionally, I couldn't weld anything in such that it prevented reaching the mounting tabs for the battery cable. 2 fuel lines, electrics bundle and brake lines. That meant some serious fiddling to get it all to fit. Plus making a bunch of little bitty parts for mounting like these:
Attachment:
DSC03723.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03722.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03724.JPG


Here's where they ended up to satisfy all the various requirements for location for and aft, plus height in and above the tunnel.
Attachment:
DSC03726.JPG


To fit with my top loading scheme, I had to do what is euphemistically called a "field modification" to the e-brake and primary cable bracket. It was done with great finesse using that precision machine tool, the 6 inch bench grinder. :mrgreen:
Attachment:
DSC03727.JPG


Here's the e-brake and mounting plate in final position with the brake off:
Attachment:
DSC03735.JPG


Here it is raised up full:
Attachment:
DSC03736.JPG


Here's the high altitude view of all three parts in position, just lacking the cables and adjusters themselves.
Attachment:
DSC03737.JPG


Cheers,


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 20, 2017, 1:31 am 
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Nice! Very clean install!

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PostPosted: May 20, 2017, 1:34 am 
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I like it, I like it a lot. Easy to see picture details when the frame is painted gray (even if its primer).
Good job!!! :cheers:

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PostPosted: May 20, 2017, 10:14 am 
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@zetec7,
@horchoha.

Thank you, gents. It's always very nice to get an "atta-boy" from 2 other builders.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 24, 2017, 11:20 pm 
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Although I still have work to do on the tunnel, I'm shifting over to the scuttle and dash for a bit. Where they are positioned, and what they look like, will provide necessary guidance for constructing the dashboard hoop, steering column, and other structural support for things like the windshield, windshield wipers, side mirrors, etc. I'd really like a removable scuttle, but I may go for a semi-removable one. That would mean one that comes off, but not easily with 4-5 bolts.

I'd like to get this car on the road. So, for my planned Phase I vehicle, one that's complete enough to pass it's tests and be registered, but needing further development, I might forgo the complexity of a removable scuttle. I'm going to spend a few days looking at alternatives then decide.

First up decision is the position of the scuttle, and the design of the dashboard. I taped up some cardboard pieces and tried a few simple designs. I like the last one I did best, but I'm interested in the opinions of others. Here's design #1:
Attachment:
DSC03738.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03739.JPG


I wasn't all that happy with the design. The dash looked OK, but the way it interfaced to the top of the tunnel bothered me some. Here's design number 2. It's basically #1 with the downward pointing tabs removed.
Attachment:
DSC03740.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03741.JPG

Design #3 just uses some cardboard sheet and a wooden block to stand in for the tunnel cover and T5 gearshift stub. I'm going to use an aftermarket short-throw shifter and build my own shift lever as I thing the donor shift lever is too tall to work well here.
Attachment:
DSC03746.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03745.JPG

This is a photo with the stock, Mustang, T5 shifter in the left and a Steeda unit at right. You can see that it's a pretty easy job to attach a custom shift lever to either unit.
Attachment:
T5 Shifters.jpg

Here's my last design (so far). It has a sheetmetal box (simulated in cardboard) atop the tunnel cover to house the Mustang ECU and related electronics. Space-wise, this may be the best location for that gear, although access isn't as good as I'd like.
Attachment:
DSC03748.JPG

Attachment:
DSC03747.JPG


Best of all today, I received my latest purchase. A set of kick-ass dimple dies. I have wanted some for a while, but didn't have time to make them on a lathe. I also wanted ones that would do more than 20 or 16 gauge steel. These babies will do 3/16 mild steel if you can punch out the hole. I use a lot of 16, 14 and 12 gauge sheet. When combined with the Harbor Freight hydraulic punch set, which will punch through 11 gauge mild steel, I think I can meet all my needs, except one. The missing element is a 1/2" dimple die. The HF punch set does pipe sizes, and the smallest is 3/4", which is actually a hole a little larger than 1".

Rather than spend another $400 for a tube-sized set of punches, I elected to use my upcoming, Memorial Day, 25% off coupon and buy the HF pipe size set. I'll probably get a manual flaring tool from Eastwood for the 1/2" size.
Attachment:
DSC03750.JPG


Cheers,


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: May 26, 2017, 7:45 am 
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Yo, Lonnie!
First item of business is asking you to hug Mrs. Lonnie for me.

I like the look of that first design, but I think the last one is probably more practical. I'm sure you've already thought of rounding off all the lower corners. Your knees will thank you for doing it.

I have a Steeda shifter in the Slotus, albeit a very modified one*. It's very smooth, feels solid and works well, even with some ham-fisted Goober slamming it into gear. The lever looks long, but I found that it worked out pretty well in my car.
Attachment:
Shifter Extension.jpg
*OK, it's mounted backwards with a 2" extender moving it forward. But I didn't shorten it... YMMV...

:cheers:
JDK


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PostPosted: May 26, 2017, 12:10 pm 
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Glad to hear others are using Steeda shifters. I put one in my car, but haven't got it to the driving stage yet so I haven't tested it. I can say that the shifts in my Ford T-5 are very short throw - possibly less than those in my Miata. Feels pretty slick, anyway...

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PostPosted: May 26, 2017, 3:31 pm 
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@GonzoRacer
First, thanks for the virtual hug for the Mrs. She will appreciate that.

Also, thanks for the input on the design. I'm liking the last one, #4, too. I also need extra space for electronics, so that's an added benefit of doing it that way. I'm trying out some new arrangements too, but #4 seems very practical and easy to plan for, and construct.

Thanks for the input on the Steeda shifter. What you've done is pretty much what I'll need to do. I need the shift handle to be 3-4 inches back from the standard position for comfort. I moved the engine/transmission back as far as I could and still have some room for a pedal box and my feet (big bellhousing). I just have to make the rest up with the custom shift handle.

@zetec7
Also, thank you for the input on the Steeda shifter. It looks like the best unit for my application, anyway. I'm happy to hear you like yours.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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