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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: June 13, 2018, 2:21 pm 
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Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
MangPong wrote:
Hi Lonnie,
I have today finished reading the build-logs of you and GonzoRacer, and am now avidly seeking others to sate my gluttony (I think I'm going to go with Tom's Car9 next...). I want to thank you for all the detail you have squeezed into your pages, and the quality of your detail design is quite phenomenal - an inspiration...

If I may, I would like to mention one thing that has niggled me - with your English-wheel support, which is very heavy and, when you tip it back to move it must be close to being top-heavy. You have previously mentioned the apparent ease that one can stumble, especially when moving backwards and, if you fall over, the handle of this support looks likely to fall right across your hips/groin/pelvis. It occurred to me you might add a couple of outriggers behind the wheels, like they have on dragsters - for much the same purpose. It would certainly put my mind at rest...

In the meantime, I am on tenterhooks awaiting the sight of this machine whizzing down the road...

Many thanks, MangPong.


I missed your posting somehow. Sorry for the late reply.

Thank you for your concern. However, it's very safe. The black base (it's actually a heavy plastic, inverted planter with the bottom cut out) is full of concrete. below the base (on the floor side) is a soft rubber. The wheels don't activate until it's tilted about 15°, which isn't all that easy to do. So, if anything happens, it falls immediately straight onto its base, the wheel disengage, and it "sticks like glue" to the floor.

The biggest benefit is that the English wheel doesn't move around much when you're wheeling metal due to the high mass down low.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: June 13, 2018, 2:26 pm 
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RandyBMC wrote:
Agree, it looks bulkier with the 1" extension. However, if that enables you to fit the engine with a clean bonnet, I would do that over having a bulgy bonnet.


Thanks for the input. I felt the same way when I build that 1" base. It means raising the nose 1" too. Otherwise, the hood will not integrate that well with it. Obviously, I've been on both sides of the issue.

Today, I'm on the "don't use it side." Tomorrow? Well, who knows? :roll:

The good thing about these cars is that you can change anything you like at anytime.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: June 14, 2018, 1:40 pm 
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Location: SW Wes Consin
Hey Lonnie
I have posted this in the past. It is a solution for the one man shop problem. I had the hubs machined and might have some extras. You would have to roll your own ring though.


Attachments:
File comment: one men shop ?
IMG_1086.jpg
IMG_1086.jpg [ 38.98 KiB | Viewed 1752 times ]
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PostPosted: June 14, 2018, 2:00 pm 
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@vroom

Thanks very much. That is indeed a nice solution. I like the stand too. it looks like you've adapted a standard stand for grinders, etc. Stiffen up the upper and lower arms on the bead roller a little and you'd have a nice, capable unit.

Based on the example I see between the rollers, it looks like you have the process down. I've only done 20 gauge, mild steel. Dave from Michigan has done 16 gauge. Your example looks like pretty heavy stainless, or is it just shiny aluminum?

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: June 16, 2018, 2:33 am 
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vroom wrote:
I have posted this in the past.

What a simple solution! Thanks, I'll be building that. It will be easier for wifey to crank the bead roller whist I feed the tin into it.

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Perry

'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O.
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build, The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered


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PostPosted: June 23, 2018, 2:48 pm 
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I'm still working on the car some portion of just about every day. I have the fixed steel panels for the tunnel all done and welded in. The tunnel will be insulated. I have the insulation materials on hand. It will be darn near impossible to fit the insulation once the floor is welded in place. So, I'm spending time painting and seam sealing the tunnel panels and will then cut out and label the insulation pieces for installation and glue-up later.
Attachment:
File comment: Driver's side fixed panels in place. The paint is still drying, so that's why it looks blotchy.
DSC04337.JPG
DSC04337.JPG [ 140.79 KiB | Viewed 1601 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Passenger side panels.
DSC04338.JPG
DSC04338.JPG [ 133.98 KiB | Viewed 1601 times ]


The open areas on both sides will be removable aluminum panels. I gave it a lot of thought, but there's so much structure there I felt having access for engine/transmission installation and access to things like the backup (reverse) switch, speedometer sending unit and (critically) all the bolts for the transmission mount and the mount crossmember were much more important. Once all the fixed panel stuff is finished, I'll start on those.
Attachment:
File comment: Areas (both sides) where I'll fab up removable aluminum panels.
DSC04339.JPG
DSC04339.JPG [ 132.68 KiB | Viewed 1601 times ]


I need to paint, seam seal, then cut out insulation for each of the tunnel inner areas, a few of which show here.
Attachment:
File comment: Inner areas needing insulation.
DSC04334.JPG
DSC04334.JPG [ 135.78 KiB | Viewed 1601 times ]


Then, when the removable panels are done, I should be able to weld in the floor.

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: June 23, 2018, 2:58 pm 
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Lonnie-S wrote:
The open areas on both sides will be removable aluminum panels. I gave it a lot of thought, but there's so much structure there I felt having access for engine/transmission installation and access to things like the backup (reverse) switch, speedometer sending unit and (critically) all the bolts for the transmission mount and the mount crossmember were much more important. Once all the fixed panel stuff is finished, I'll start on those.
Looks great Lonnie. Have you factored driveshaft installation-removal into the access panel design?

And please show how you did your seat belt anchors.

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Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

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PostPosted: June 23, 2018, 6:49 pm 
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@seattletom

Hi Tom,

Like most Locosts, the driveshaft will be quite short (22", I think). The front yoke is off a front axle of a 4x4 truck and quite narrow by design for packaging reasons, but will easily handle my 300 HP Phase II engine. The drive shaft will go in from the rear. I'll have a removable panel in the boot section for taking it in and out, if necessary, in maintenance scenarios. Most likely, I will just tie it up to the top of the tunnel structure when removing the engine/transmission, which go in and out as a unit.

It's not a good photo, but you can see the front half of the yoke in place in the photo below. The top of the tunnel will be removable for access. However, I'm considering having an access hatch in the undertray below it too. I'll make that decision when I set up the floor to be welded in place.
Attachment:
DSC01247.JPG
DSC01247.JPG [ 146.82 KiB | Viewed 1588 times ]


To make more seat room, I wanted the narrowest tunnel I could get. And, I got it too. You can see the yoke fits through, but without much space to spare.
Attachment:
4x4-toT5-Yoke.jpg
4x4-toT5-Yoke.jpg [ 159.12 KiB | Viewed 1588 times ]



Three of the lower seat belt mounts (outboard on pass & driver's) plus the driver's side inboard are pretty much the standard Haynes Roadster tabs welded to the chassis rails and tunnel structure. They are 1/8" plate, welded both sides, having flange nuts welded in for blind attachment of the bolts & washers (no nut required). The passenger side, inboard mount is embedded in the large, 1/8" plate that ties the tunnel structure together on that side. I had to cut away a vertical tube to make sure there was enough room for the drive shaft to have adequate clearance.

If you want more detail just let me know and I'll dig up better photos of them.

Nice to hear from you.

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: June 23, 2018, 10:31 pm 
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I'm just curious, once that thing is spinning at speed will there still be clearance under all conditions?

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PostPosted: June 24, 2018, 12:08 pm 
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carguy123 wrote:
I'm just curious, once that thing is spinning at speed will there still be clearance under all conditions?


Yes. The Panhard rod limits rear axle movement laterally to fractions of an inch. So, lateral movement of the drive shaft at the front yoke is negligible. The shaft (2-1/2" diameter) runs about in the middle of the tunnel vertically at ride height. There's plenty of room at full bump and droop for the shaft vertically.

I did have to make extra room at the back of the tunnel as a safety measure because the donor rear axle has its "pumpkin" offset 3/4" to the right. The clearances were a little to close for visual comfort, although it might have worked fine. The problem was that if I was wrong, major tunnel rework would have been required after the car was on the road. Obeying the "better safe than sorry" maxim, I reworked the rear of the tunnel now to avoid the possible future problem.

The yoke rides just about the middle (vertically) of the tunnel as shown in this photo of tunnel construction.
Attachment:
Yoke-Location.jpg
Yoke-Location.jpg [ 58.27 KiB | Viewed 1553 times ]


The original clearance looked like this (duct taped card = 2-1/2"+ diameter) and green tape marks shaft mounting flange on differential.
Attachment:
DSC01394.JPG
DSC01394.JPG [ 136.11 KiB | Viewed 1553 times ]


I later modified the right rear of the tunnel to give additional 1/2" clearance at this spot. I think I'm good.

Thanks for your interest, however.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: June 24, 2018, 12:55 pm 
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OOOH, I thought the yoke was sitting right between those 2 uprights and that looked awfully tight. Good thinking and planning on your part.

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I drive therefore I am

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PostPosted: June 26, 2018, 8:28 pm 
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It's been a little slow the last couple of days, but I did get the removable panels done in terms of cutting and fitting them. I spent time today noodling out a system for mounting them, and a method to put trim (rugs) over them and the tunnel. I'll do the fastening system to morrow, then do the insulation too.
Attachment:
File comment: Passenger side, removable panel.
DSC04341.JPG
DSC04341.JPG [ 136.45 KiB | Viewed 1498 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Passenger side panels all done from firewall to seatback.
DSC04342.JPG
DSC04342.JPG [ 148.09 KiB | Viewed 1498 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Same with driver's side.
DSC04343.JPG
DSC04343.JPG [ 139.01 KiB | Viewed 1498 times ]


Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: June 30, 2018, 9:28 am 
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Location: SW Wes Consin
Sorry for posting late, I've been away. Regarding my bead roller fix: the material is .050 aluminum 3003 and dead soft when I roll it in multiple passes. This might not be the professional method but it works for me.

The stand is for a tube bender but it mounts everything that has to be tied down.


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PostPosted: June 30, 2018, 11:33 am 
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vroom wrote:
Sorry for posting late, I've been away. Regarding my bead roller fix: the material is .050 aluminum 3003 and dead soft when I roll it in multiple passes. This might not be the professional method but it works for me.

The stand is for a tube bender but it mounts everything that has to be tied down.

Thanks for the further info.

I did see that you mentioned possibly having some additional hubs in your previous post. I might get back to you on that.

For the moment, I've decided not to put time into the bead roller. I have a short term goal of finishing up all the critical things before I weld the undertray onto the chassis. It's a lot more difficult to do all the transmission tunnel tasks once the undertray is on, so I'm focusing on those too.

Once the undertray is on, it goes back up on the build table for the front suspension design, steering gear design, scuttle attachment and adding the rear structure. However, I'm going to revisit the bead roller as time permits. It definitely adds structural value in addition to the aesthetic enhancement it gives to parts.

Thanks again,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: July 1, 2018, 3:50 pm 
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Always best to stay focussed.


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