LocostUSA.com

I like these suspension programs but wonder if by focusing on one aspect of the suspension you are not moving the goalpost of another. I read ( dangerous ) an article on rear suspension set up and it rattled on about the effects under braking of the rear links and how tramping/wheelhop could be induced if link arms were set at certain angles. Chasing the perfection of one set of parameters may cause problems elsewhere. Just ramblings

Bob

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Build Log viewtopic.php?f=35&t=16640&p=187700#p187700

Mancave http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/mypic ... ow/mancave

@bob

Thank you, Bob. Yup, the possibilities to screw things up are are endless with a 4-link. That's why I took the time to compile a list of characteristics that will keep me out of trouble. The longer virtual swing arm length and not using really short links will prevent the problems you mention. My link angles are very moderate. But, thank you.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

I've been finalizing the locations and configurations for my rear suspension parts which are the upper (chassis) and Lower (live axle) coilover mounts, axle and chassis mounting brackets for the 4-link trailing arms and also the adjustable (both ends) Panhard rod mounts. The back axle is pretty crowded, and made even more so by my desire to have adjustable components, which are more complex and typically bigger as a result. A conversation last week with Dennis Brunton, developer of the Stalker line of sevenesque cars, did get me thinking in a couple of new areas with respect to the rear 4-link configuration and my ride height. He had great success with the Stalkers both on the track and on the street, so his experiences should be considered seriously. In many ways, my build will be very similar to a Stalker.

But, there are a few things that can be build and tacked right now, so I'm focusing on them. I like to design and build using 3D. It's just so much easier to visualize what's happening. Also, the 3D design can be turned into directly useful 2D information. Besides traditional drawings, which I always make, I often use my printers to produce full size templates that I spray mount on thin, white card stock. It can simplify fabrication quite a bit as you can trace out many things directly on raw materials as opposed to laying them out with rulers and instruments. My printers are accurate to less than a millimeter, so no worries there. Here's an example, the lower coilover mount for the live axle.

I made this limited, 3D model of the right rear (the left side is symmetric, except for the Panhard rod) to make things simpler and easier to deal with:


From it I generated a 2D profile of the axle coilover mount to use for several purposes:


I use accurate layouts with instruments from the drawings to drill holes, but use the card-mounted drawing to trace out other features that aren't critical, but are more complicated to layout.







Because the rear axle area is so full of things right now, and it's just about impossible to clean up the metal for welding, I'll pull the axle out of the chassis after additional parts are made before tacking them in place.


Everyone prefers to work in their own way and this is the way I find most comfortable and effective for myself.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

Lonnie those are some mighty fine looking lower coilover mounts (br@cketz) you have fabbed up.
Wish I had the know how to use them fancy computer programs. My problem is that by the time I would learn to use the program I would have half the car built. There is some truth to the saying 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks' in my case anyway.

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Perry

'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered
Perry's 5th Build the Super Slant 6 Super 7
Perry's Final Build the 1929 Mercedes Gazelle

Thanks for the compliment, Perry. I'll have to say in your defense, Perry, that you're pretty amazing at getting things done, so give yourself credit. Who knows how many of these cars you'll build once you're retired?

You've got the practical experience and confidence with fabricating and mechanics that I just don't have. I'm envious of that, believe me. I spent my career with computers and software and engineers, so computer-based design is like falling of a log to me. On the other hand, lacking the practical machining and fabricating skills you have, I can design great things that I just don't have the skills right now to actually make. Arghhhh, that is frustrating! I either have to take time out to learn new skills or dumb-down my designs until it's something I can make. I do a little of both most times.

You must be at about 70 days left on the job now. Do you have that short-timers attitude yet?

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

Lonnie, Perry-
Y'all ought to team up and build a car. Between the two of ya, you could do a helluva job! I can send Bubba over when you need to move something heavy or want something beat on with a hammer...


JDK

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

Thank you, JD. Maybe we ought to move down to the "Center of the Know Universe" and see what we can all three come up with using free parts? Sort of a Locost scavenger hunt with weldin' included.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

OK, here's what I need to say first, "I'm actually not an idiot. And, if necessary, I can prove it." But, here's a funny story and maybe you can confirm what my funny story's mystery metal is from the photos I'll attach here later on. However, here's the story.

Today I needed some solid steel rod to turn in my little lathe for a part I need to make for my Panhard rod mount. It needed to be at least 1-1/4" in diameter, but slightly larger would be OK as I would just turn it down a little more. I called around to all the steel suppliers in my area of North San Diego County, but none of them stock anything in that large a diameter. So, I also called the local metal salvage yards too as I didn't want to drive to San Diego where I knew for sure they had it in stock, but would charge me an arm and a leg for a small quantity. One of the local yards said, "Yeah, we have a whole bunch of salvage stuff and we're marking all remnants down to 25 cents a pound for a sale today." He was sure that had a bunch of stuff in the range of 1-2 inches. So, off I went to a town about 12 miles away.

He was right. I found a piece about 4 feet long (most of them were 5-10 feet and too big for me) that looked promising. It had been cut with a torch at one end, but the other had nice, coarse threads machined into it. "Oh good, I thought, it machines up just fine." It was heavily oxidized, but also over 1-1/2" in diameter and I thought I'd just take 1/8" off and find nice metal underneath, no problem. Here's what it looked like:



I got it home and decided I'd clean off all the oxidation and the cut it in half for storage. There's no way I'll ever machine a 4' long part. Once the oxidation started to come off, I could see it had an unusual texture on the metal. It almost looked like a textured paint, but it cleaned up pretty quickly, but never got shiny like a true metal and the texture stayed put. A wire wheel on a drill couldn't get it off. OK, I said, let's cut off the threads as they're not useful and would be very annoying to deal with on the lathe and I'll just machine the texture off on the lathe.


After about 20-30 strokes, I noticed the blade was no longer taking a bite, but just slipping through the metal and not doing much. I looked at the blade and saw the teeth were just about gone completely. "Wow, I said to myself, this stuff is super hard. What in the heck is this stuff?" I had an old bi-metal blade around that I had purchased to saw stainless steel with and decided to go find it and try that blade instead.


That worked much better, and it took some effort, but I got through the metal, but knew it was too hard to be useful in my Panhard rod application. Still, I wanted to figure out what kind of metal it was. So, here it is after I sawed through.


I said, "Shoot, that sure looks like stainless steel to me, but how did it get so oxidized and what in the heck is the coating on it?" I polished it up and here's what it looks like.


I think it's stainless steel with some kind of weird coating that oxidizes like mild steel. Lest you think I'm goofing on you, here's the piece going from a raw, oxidized state to revealing the textured coating after I wire brushed it with a wheel.


I think just about anyone would be fooled by this one, don't you? Does anyone have any idea of what kind of situation would use this kind of stainless steel? It seems to contradict the purpose of stainless. Do you think it's coated with some kind of mill scale and that's what is high in iron content?

All is not lost. I paid 25 cents a pound and I think I can sell to another salvage yard as stainless for much more, maybe a couple of bucks a pound? But, now I have to go to San Diego anyway. Arghhhh!

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

In general, stainless steels are corroded by acids and to a lesser degree by chlorinated solvents. Most likely an accidental exposure.

Lonnie
Sure you didn't buy some oil field sucker rod? I've run across some very hard sucker rod that lathe tool bits have a hard time cutting into. You can also check it with a magnet, they won't stick to most SS (depending on nickel content).
Just my 2 cents.

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Perry

'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered
Perry's 5th Build the Super Slant 6 Super 7
Perry's Final Build the 1929 Mercedes Gazelle

@seven13bt

You could well be right. You just don't know the history of these remnant pieces, but there were a whole bunch of them and it looked like a waterline situation where a small part of the pieces looked pretty much untouched. That is, above the waterline.

@horchoha

I'm not sure what sucker rod is, Perry. It did check it for magnetism, and it is very slightly magnetic, which is consistent with stainless. I'm wondering what the coating is. It's not a paint. It is really fused into the metal. It's like one of those exotic coatings they put on with a plasma or something similar. It's really on there. A wire wheel didn't touch it. It's very hard. It was applied after the threads were cut too.

What's sucker rod?

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

The sucker rod is attached to the peckerhead and goes through the stuffing box, packing, and wellhead, and then down into the well. That should be clear as mud now. It's basically the same idea as an old fashioned water well hand pump, but on a much bigger scale. The required size of pumpjack depends on the depth of the well and how much it produces.
Kristian

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V6 in a book frame build. Now registered.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7587
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=18172

Well, yeah... Thought everybody knew that...

JD "Drill Rig Trash, and Proud Of It" Kemp

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom

Maybe SS that has gone though the passivation process? It is commonly used in the manufacture of artificial joints (as in knee and hip) to control corrosion.

There. I've told you everything I know about the subject.

Bill

@turbo_bird
Well, thank you for that education, Kristian. Are those rods typically stainless steel?

@BBlue
You could be right, Bill. I just don't understand what oxidized. Maybe the coating was intended to be a sacrificial one? What ever this piece came from, it was very expensive to make and a rather exotic combination of materials.

I like sucker rod better than the only alternate I could come up with. The only local place I could figure this might be from is the nuclear reactor they've been dismantling up at San Onofre, about 15 minutes north of here. Like I say, I like oil field sucker rod better.

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886