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PostPosted: September 23, 2017, 9:30 pm 
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Location: Pemberton, BC
Lonnie,
I wouldn't loose too much sleep over that. Although it is very desirable to have a progressive pedal, I very much doubt that many people can feel the difference of the reduced leverage. Mario, Michael and Rick Mears would know, but most of us wouldn't. As long as the majority of your pedal travel is progressive, the final bit won't make a lot of difference. At that point, you are pushing so hard, your heels will smoke.
https://www.gaskrank.tv/tv/rennstrecken ... ualmen.htm
Your problem will easily be fixed with tilting the pedal forward (or more appropriately backward towards the driver), and adjusting your pedal surface angle.
You'll be fine. :cheers:

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My build log:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14520&start=0
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PostPosted: September 24, 2017, 7:02 pm 
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mgkluft wrote:
Lonnie,
. . . Your problem will easily be fixed with tilting the pedal forward (or more appropriately backward towards the driver), and adjusting your pedal surface angle. . .


There's definitely something to both of those changes, Martin, but there's a little more as well.

It takes a little time to do the analysis on some of these things, but I like to feel confident I've made a good, reasoned choice. Most people wouldn't bother much further than a good guess, and that's OK if you're comfy with doing so. I'm willing to push it a little further to increase my confidence level. It's not that hard if you're willing to put a little time into things.

I took a print out of my pedal design, full size. If you have a modern dot matrix or laser printer, these printouts are very accurate. That I glued to some cardboard. You don't even have to do that to observe gross behavior, but I wanted to see how much the pedal moved forward at the pedal pad, and what the angle of the pedal pad would make with my shoe and the "floorboard." You could just draw out a simple vertical bar shape and carefully mark the distances between things. You'd loose visual information like the angle of the pedal pad, however. Using a small finishing nail, I attached it to a small piece of plywood through the pivot hole center mark.
Attachment:
File comment: Accurate print out glued to carboard. Nails were used at the pivot points.
Cardboard Brake Pedal-Small.jpg
Cardboard Brake Pedal-Small.jpg [ 25.69 KiB | Viewed 1431 times ]


I cut out a rectangular piece of carboard 4-1/2" long by 5/16" wide to act as the plunger rod. With the card plunger stand-in, I put a brad through it into the center of the balance bar pivot point (the center of the tube/rod combo in real life) on my printout and let the loose end ride atop a small, thin, piece of 1/8" thick wood trim that is flat and square that the plunger rod slid along. So the block of wood stood in for the end of the master cylinder, but the cardboard rod was not restrained.

With the rod level at the start, I just rotated the pedal and could easily observe through tick marks on the rod and plywood how far the rod moved forward as the pedal turned. It was also easy to see when the majority of the pedal movement started to go downward as the rigid card rod started to rotate up off the wood block and you could see the pedal end sink below horizontal. I got about 7/16" (+/-) 1/16" of travel before the "over center" behavior started. That's less than half the full travel of the master cylinder. I don't feel like that's enough for safety.

As you can see from the image above, I started moving the rod up the pedal, increasing the distance between the pedal pivot point and the rod pivot point. I move the block of wood each time so that the cardboard rod was level at the start. This was just a "quick and dirty" way of measuring how much more the rod would move forward into the master cylinder before "over center" happened. That gave me a good idea of the target distance I wanted. Given that the master cylinder control rod height is fixed by the chassis (unless I want to bring the master cylinders inside the cabin, which I don't) and I need to keep the brake pad height inside a certain range, that limits my choices too.

Using the free Calc program from Open Office, I set up a simple spreadsheet to try out some different configurations:
Attachment:
File comment: Simple, 20-minute spreadsheet in Open Office Calc
Distances Screenshot-Small.jpg
Distances Screenshot-Small.jpg [ 118.23 KiB | Viewed 1431 times ]


Wanting to keep the pedal ratio at least close to 5:1 for my wife, but realizing I'd have to increase the pedal height some, it looked like a pedal height of 8-1/2" was a good choice. I'd always planned on a heel rest anyway. If I can make an adjustable one, and give my wife an extra "lift" of 1" with that, we'll be effectively back to a 7-1/2" pedal height. Coincidentally, 8-1/2" is just about ideal for me.

I just re-entered the pivot height, increasing it by 1/16" each time and looked at the output:
Attachment:
File comment: Last iteration with 8-1/2" pedal height
Final-Distances.jpg
Final-Distances.jpg [ 50.73 KiB | Viewed 1431 times ]


From that I concluded that using either of the 2 circled entries would give a good, all-around solution: significantly more near-linear rod movement before "over center" is reached; a decent pedal ratio; and a pedal height I could work with using a little creativity on the heel rest. The main thing is that I feel I know what is going to happen and that I've balanced out the factors reasonably given the real-world constraints of my build.

Back to martin's points quoted above. I'm rotating the pedal pad downward to increase shoe/pedal contact as the pedal nears the over-center point. I won't be increasing the distance back towards the driver, as the face of the pedal is just where it needs to be based on our heel location and the angle our feet can make comfortably. We developed those measurements from mock-up, wooden pedals we did some months ago when the chassis was on blocks and it had a seat (my old Mustang seat cushions) and floorboards using plywood clamped in place.

Anyway, V3 of the pedal design will be done with much better information and assumptions.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: September 27, 2017, 10:56 pm 
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To finish my pedal bracket setup, I needed to finalize my clutch design. I had originally planned to keep and modify the Mustang cable clutch. However, when I started to look at the engineering involved, and the space it would take up, I started to investigate using a hydraulic clutch instead. Cluth conversions are pretty expensive, but I found a nice, simple one from Modern Driveline.

It mounts externally on the bellhousing. You need to drill a couple bolt holes in the bellhousing, but that's not real hard. Below are some photos of their example installation, not ones of my build.
Attachment:
File comment: Laying out the holes with the supplied bracket.
Modern-Driveline-3.8L-Clutch-Slave-Kit-#4.jpg
Modern-Driveline-3.8L-Clutch-Slave-Kit-#4.jpg [ 13.16 KiB | Viewed 1399 times ]

Attachment:
Modern-Driveline-3.8L-Clutch-Slave-Kit-#5.jpg
Modern-Driveline-3.8L-Clutch-Slave-Kit-#5.jpg [ 12.75 KiB | Viewed 1399 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Bracket and slave in place.
Modern-Driveline-3.8L-Clutch-Slave-Kit-#2.jpg
Modern-Driveline-3.8L-Clutch-Slave-Kit-#2.jpg [ 96.95 KiB | Viewed 1399 times ]


The required master cylinder is slightly different that the two Wilwood "Shortys" I'm using for the brake MCs, but that's OK. It's still very compact and has the same flange size and mounting holes. It's the classic Girling style with a built in reservoir. It does have a shorted rod that the other two, so that will have to be accounted for. But, all-in-all, pretty simple compared to a mechanical layout with cable.
Attachment:
File comment: Matching MC for clutch slave
Wilwood 260-6579 No Markup.jpg
Wilwood 260-6579 No Markup.jpg [ 10.67 KiB | Viewed 1399 times ]


So, on with finishing the design.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: November 11, 2017, 9:08 am 
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Lonnie, I am looking at your pedal design and cads, and mock ups,(your like the mock up guru). Your patients level is off the chart. There is no Forking way I could do this to the level that you design parts. WOW!.
Stuff is looking really nice by the way. I just had to tell you that. Have a good weekend :D

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PostPosted: November 13, 2017, 11:51 am 
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Hi Steve,

Thank you for the nice compliments and for giving me a nice "Atta Boy." I actually enjoy the whole process. There have been a number of times that creating a design, and then making a cardboard or foamcore mock-up for it, has motivated me to go back and do a much better job. It's a nice way to reason things out on the car with out the time and expense of fabricating something in metal. There have been a couple of times where it saved me from spoiling some large and expensive pieces of metal too. :roll:

I've been working almost full time on a big community project lately, and I'm getting real anxious to get back on the car again. It will probably be another 2-3 weeks before that's possible for me. I've been vicariously enjoying all the progress you've been making.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: November 16, 2017, 1:01 am 
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Lonnie, Is that one solid shaft from the slave piston all the way past the clutch fork? It is kind of hard to tell from the pics.

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PostPosted: November 23, 2017, 1:06 pm 
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rx7locost wrote:
Lonnie, Is that one solid shaft from the slave piston all the way past the clutch fork? It is kind of hard to tell from the pics.


Hi Warren,

Sorry for the delayed response. I've been on a sort of sabbatical (I think that's Greek for unexpectedly distracted) from Locost stuff for a few weeks and not checking in here.

Yes, it's all one shaft. They have a few different kits for different years and bellhousings and that part varies with the corresponding lever arm you have for your model year.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: December 10, 2017, 3:57 pm 
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As an aside, when Hyundai introduced the 2005 Tucson, I went to technical training on it. They had found people in emergency stops were not pressing the brake hard enough, so they went with an over center effect for the mast cyl/booster. Might put you into the ABS, but you stopped faster (pro driver's excepted, one supposes).


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PostPosted: March 3, 2018, 1:02 pm 
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Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
This coming Monday, I'll start back on my build. As stated months ago, I am involved in a big community project, which did take a lot of time. However, the thing I didn't want to talk about was my wife's second brush with cancer, this time even more dangerous than the first. She is such a healthy and energetic woman, you'd never think she's be afflicted by a serious health issue. That girl has dodged some big bullets. I'm now fully convinced she'll be burying me, not the other way round [LOL]. Maybe I should be buried in my Locost? :mrgreen:

Long story made very short, we just got her an all-clear Friday on the latest pathology from her lymphatic system. So, now we can turn our energy and thinking back to life plans and goals again. It's been a difficult 2-1/2 years and we are definitely ready to move on.

I've worked sporadically on the pedal box design over the last few months and have a configuration I'm satisfied with. It's not as pretty as I'd like, but it's fairly simple and I have the materials on hand.
Attachment:
File comment: Final pedal box and gas pedal shown together in chassis.
Small Final [V9] Gas Pedal Environment.jpg
Small Final [V9] Gas Pedal Environment.jpg [ 72.1 KiB | Viewed 865 times ]


There are some details missing like the pedal stops and bolt-up scheme. I'll figure those out as I fabricate the parts. I also got a final location for the steering column and where it will line up with the driver's seat and firewall. I did some quick-and-dirty mock-ups of both systems for a reality check in the chassis. The already cramped driver's footwell is even narrower in my design due to the large bellhousing of the V6 (same as Ford V8) and the allowances for the T5 transmission in the tunnel.
Attachment:
File comment: Final mock-up in place.
Final Mock-up #1.JPG
Final Mock-up #1.JPG [ 132.45 KiB | Viewed 865 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Mock-up showing steering column (shaft) location.
Final Mock-up #2.JPG
Final Mock-up #2.JPG [ 135.46 KiB | Viewed 865 times ]


Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: March 3, 2018, 1:57 pm 
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Quote:
It does have a shorted rod that the other two, so that will have to be accounted for.


You can buy different length pushrods for Girling style cylinders...

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PostPosted: March 3, 2018, 3:40 pm 
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That's great news Lonnie, give her a big hug from Karen and myself.

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PostPosted: March 3, 2018, 8:24 pm 
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@horchoha
Thanks, Perry. I will pass that on to her. We'll definitely all 4 have to get together if you two take your trip out here to the desert.

@horizenjob
Thank you for that info, Marcus. I'm getting more and more practical these days, and trying to do more things with what I have on hand. I decided to change the shape of the pedals to allow me to move the hole for the clutch clevis bolt 7/16 inches forward of the one for the brake pedal. I could make that solution with the 12 gauge plate I have now. Both pedals have the same profile. But the "working holes" are in different places.
Attachment:
File comment: Clutch pedal with forward clevis bolt hole.
Small Clutch Pedal V1 Screenshot.jpg
Small Clutch Pedal V1 Screenshot.jpg [ 29.41 KiB | Viewed 830 times ]


Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: March 4, 2018, 9:53 pm 
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Every Christmas my wife asks me what I want. She's never that happy with the answer because it's always a tool or software of some type. However, I was a really, really good fellow in 2017, and even saved us a boatload of money on a big ticket item. So, this year she insisted that I go BIG and get something I really wanted.

Here it is. An Everlast 250EX TIG welder.
Attachment:
File comment: Completed assembly of my 250 EX package.
Complete 250EX Package.jpg
Complete 250EX Package.jpg [ 99.71 KiB | Viewed 793 times ]


Its been sitting since mid-December and now I have the time to start on my build again, so it was time to get it going. I sold my old, 110V, scratch start, ThermalArc 95S weeks ago, but kept the argon bottle and welding cart. The Everlast package I bought discounts all the components if you buy them together and had a big, additional discount for the Christmas sales season. I don't need the water cooler yet, nor the water cooled torch. I got a rotating head, air cooled torch to get going.

The inexpensive HF cart needed some minor modifications to work. I cut the front tray face on the bottom shelf, bend it over and rounded and filed the exposed edges of it. That made the water cooler fit just perfectly. I may later drill some holes in the back of the cart for ventilation. However, I think I may build a better cart in future.
Attachment:
File comment: Tray front, sawed. bent and filed.
250EX-#4.jpg
250EX-#4.jpg [ 51.87 KiB | Viewed 793 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Water cooler in place.
250EX-#5.jpg
250EX-#5.jpg [ 82.52 KiB | Viewed 793 times ]

The welder itself is too long for the upper shelf. I had a nice piece of heavy plywood scrap in my woodpile that was just wide enough to work. I trimmed of a couple of inches on the front of it, put it on the upper tray with 4, 5/16" bolts and washers, added a couple of stops to keep it off the argon tank and bada-bing, bada-boom I gots a working cart.
Attachment:
File comment: Plywood top added.
250EX-#3.jpg
250EX-#3.jpg [ 86.32 KiB | Viewed 793 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: Cart with welder, water cooler mounted.
250EX-#2.jpg
250EX-#2.jpg [ 90.94 KiB | Viewed 793 times ]

You've got to supply and mount your own plug for the power cord. THe power cord is just a couple of feet long ( :roll: ). I had a previous 220V, flux core welder and had built a 20', 220v extension cord, so I could take it anywhere in the 2-car garage. I only have 1, 220V, single phase circuit in the garage. I got a twist lock plug compatible with the extension cord and wall receipticle and put it on.
Attachment:
File comment: All the electric stuff completed.
Plugs and 220V Extension.jpg
Plugs and 220V Extension.jpg [ 80.85 KiB | Viewed 793 times ]


The supplied gas regulator looks like a high-quality item, but it took 3 trys and a lot of teflon tape to make all the connections leak proof. But, it got done.

The only thing left was to make a weld or two. Of course, they're complete turds! My plan is to continue most construction tasks using the Miller MIG welder I've been using while learning the TIG welder on the side. It is AC/DC unit and has a built-in feature for spot welding light sheet metal. It goes down to 5A and up to 250A (using the water cooled torch). Those features will make it possible to do light sheet metal, heavy steel and aluminum.
Attachment:
File comment: Two turd welds, but it's working. It's the welder operator that isn't too slick right now.
First Welds.jpg
First Welds.jpg [ 69.06 KiB | Viewed 793 times ]


Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: March 5, 2018, 1:06 am 
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
I’ll be waiting eagerly to hear more about this welder! It’s the same unit I’ve been looking at & agonizing over for a year or more, but I haven’t read any first hand reviews!

Please - keep us posted!

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PostPosted: March 5, 2018, 9:54 am 
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Nice looking TIG you've got there. Water cooler too, huh? Neat!

I'm still learning my TIG. I sharpen the tungsten often :mrgreen:

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“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my active Cushman Truckster resurrection log: over HERE
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