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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: February 7, 2023, 2:13 am 
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Location: Holden, Alberta, Canada
Wow! You've been busy. :cheers:

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Perry

'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered
Perry's 5th Build the Super Slant 6 Super 7
Perry's Final Build the 1929 Mercedes Gazelle


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PostPosted: February 7, 2023, 10:15 am 
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Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
@benny_toe
Thank you, Larry.

@horchoha
I've been working my butt off, Perry. Thanks for noticing. Some of the Craig's List stuff is starting to sell. So, I've got a little bit of pocket change too. Maybe I'll go out and buy myself a doughnut this morning - living large, living the dream [LOL].

Cheers all,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: February 7, 2023, 1:49 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
If splurging on doughnuts may I suggest a bear claw, can't get those here since Winchells bugged out - those are my Kryptonite.


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PostPosted: February 8, 2023, 10:05 am 
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@Kinetic Research
[SMILE] Bear claws are always a great suggestion. Thank you.

The doughnut shop I frequent is an excellent, family-run business. It is very popular with the local construction crews as they're open for business at 6am. So, I'm somewhat at the mercy of those guys "hunger index" on any particular day. There were no bear claws yesterday, but plenty of good cake doughnuts. :mrgreen:

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: February 14, 2023, 12:02 am 
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Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
There's a little disappointment with respect to fully rotating my chassis. I've got some interference between the kick-up/boot of the car and the bracing on the rear part of the rotisserie. I can get about 88 degrees of rotation either side, but not the upside down (180) position. The good news is I can do most of the un-welded joints even with that limitation. I'm pretty sure I can do enough of the suspension bracket welds to make it a roller safely, but I'll likely just flip it over onto the garage floor to do the bottom welds, so it is done, done, done..

I'm not sure if I can do all the routing of the brake, fuel and electrical runs as is, but perhaps. I'm going to do the welds I can and then see about making some body panels with it situated as is.

The latter task caused me to review (B.C.) Martin's build log as he was the first build I know of to use removable body panels, which I want to do also. I ended up reviewing his whole build log. It was a real trip down memory lane. It's hard to believe he finished about 7 years ago. He did a super nice Vimeo video, which I enjoyed looking at again. I now wish I'd done some video along the way.

It was worth the time rereading it. I think I've even developed (in my brain, anyway) a cheap, simple Locost way to do the mounting plates, but they wouldn't be floating. They'd be fixed, but with a good way to locate the places to drill in the panels accurately and only one drilled hole per plate.

I'll look through seattletom's build tomorrow. He did the second build with removable panels and used most of Martin's work as a basis for his own.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: February 16, 2023, 10:54 pm 
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Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
I'm working through doing all the final welds. In doing so, I'm looking at the situation of installing a rear anti-roll bar. I don't know that I'll need one, but I'd like to make provision for one in case I do need it.

I've already incorporated a hole for a link mounting point on the rear axle like what's shown in this screenshot of my 3D model. I did create the hole, and have the link parts too. Originally, I thought the anti-roll bar would run above the rear axle. That's why the link in the model points upward.
Attachment:
End-Link-and-Bracket.jpg


Subsequently, I'm finding that may not be desirable. It's too crowded in there and it's tough to get the rear axle out now. Additional brackets for an anti-roll bar would be another obstacle. However, I do have the hollow chassis tube just before the kick-up and I could run one through that rather than just welding end caps on it and sealing it up. You can see it in the middle bottom of the photo below.
Attachment:
DSC06234.JPG


I could make some gusset plates and attach weld nuts to them so you could bolt to them blind through the bodywork, or just add something flat across the gusset plates indicated in blue. All the welds on the chassis rails would have to be ground flat to make that happen, of course. He're some indications of my first thoughts. The blue triangles would be the nut plates, and the red circle is a cross section through the anti-roll bar. It could be hollow or solid depending on need.
Attachment:
Basic Parts.jpg


The links would run forward to the rear axle. Here's the driver's side with the axle and brakes populating the space.
Attachment:
Populate Rear Axle.jpg


I thought it would be very slick to have and adjustable anti-roll bar something like this Porsche aftermarket piece.
Attachment:
RSR-Adjustable-Detail.jpg

Attachment:
RSR-Adjustable.jpg


I'd love to pick the collective brain of our community and get your ideas on what would be needed on the end plates to the chassis to mount and control the forces of an anti-roll bar.

Thinking out loud, I could also look at making some mounting tabs above the axle and just make something more conventional, like a simple bar through poly bushings. Maybe some mounts as indicated below.
Attachment:
Alternate Tabs.jpg


It would have to be removable. I would be making just about everything, so it needs to be simple. Anyone want to take a stab at some design ideas?

Thanks in advance,


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: February 17, 2023, 1:16 am 
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Location: New Zealand
Good progress, looking forward to MV8's drawings!


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PostPosted: February 17, 2023, 6:47 am 
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Painted into a corner but a couple ideas.


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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: February 17, 2023, 9:38 pm 
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Joined: March 15, 2018, 6:03 am
Posts: 160
Hi - I'm reluctant to offer ideas to anyone far more experienced than myself, but...
Instead of welding on yet another bracket would it be possible to simply bolt into the rear of the existing bracket supporting the red damper/thingy...? The loads on each part would also be more directly connected, if that helps.
Or even to the rear of the trailing arms bracket, if you want to use the bar-through-tube method...
I like simplicity... but I realise it isn't necessarily the most practical.
Good luck - MangPong.


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PostPosted: February 17, 2023, 11:00 pm 
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Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
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Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
@MV8

Thanks for the ideas. I'm unlikely to weld more brackets to the rear axle. That second idea is interesting. I realize it's just a quick indication, but doesn't there need to be a pivot (bracket/bushing) on each side to make that work?

@MangPong
That's an interesting idea too. The brackets for the coilovers (the red thing is just a stand in for them) is fairly far inboard. It would require the bar to be fairly short. I'm not sure if that would require it to be stiffer or softer. That's worth looking at in more detail. Thanks.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: February 18, 2023, 7:55 am 
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FWIW, I don't think you will miss having a rear bar. Look at the pencil thick size of a miata rear bar for an idea as to how little force is appropriate on the rear. This is something you could do later if you find a need. Don't let it slow your roll.


No, the second option has no saddle pivot brackets, with all attachment to the upper links. Ideally, the upper links would not be adjustable so that any rotation that may occur from the bar does not run out of rotation at the sphericals and unjam the lock nuts. The Caterham upper links are not adjustable and they used split solid blocks of aluminum to attach the bar to the live axle cars. The old VW beetle used this same attachment for the front swaybar. A large number of rear bars on gm A-bodies and others use a bolt-in bar that attaches only to the lower links. Nothing new here. The nylon blocks would be grooved around the od for the 1/8 strapping so the nylon does not slip out of the strapping.

In hindsight, it would have been good start with an axle with a bar (preferably a car versus a truck for a thinner bar) then alter the arm length or link angle to reduce the effectiveness.

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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: February 19, 2023, 12:54 pm 
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Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 5326
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
@MV8

It looks like we will be having 4 days of rain here next week. So, that will give me some time to look into this issue seriously since I can't work on the build then.

There is nothing is really photo worthy, but I'm continuing on with the program. That means rotary wire brushing, cleaning, welding and grinding on the chassis. This is my least favorite part of the build. :ack:

My welding is improving rapidly now that I'm doing it daily. I'm pretty much up to snuff again. I'm also grinding out and re-welding a few, selected joints (not many) that look a little on the cold side to me these several years later. I'm applying the "ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" principle here. The bad news is that these spots can be very difficult to get too now. It's surprising how big and fat a MIG torch and welding helmet can get [LOL].

I've got some other issues to consider too. They're such things a locating and securing the gas tank, deciding on the location in the boot/kickup for the fuel pump, fuel filter and the collision shut off switch from my donor. The latter is a nice safety feature from my '94 Mustang donor that I'd like to keep. I also need to make provision of two exhaust attachment points on the kickup. A Locoster's work is never done, is it? :lol:

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: February 19, 2023, 9:17 pm 
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Location: Holden, Alberta, Canada
Lonnie-S wrote:
the collision shut off switch from my donor. The latter is a nice safety feature from my '94 Mustang donor that I'd like to keep
Yes the impact switch that shuts off the fuel in case of collision is a good idea, my TBird Locost has one, I located it in the boot for easy access. Reminds me of a episode we experienced.........so wifey and I are carving up a 15 mile mountain road in southern Alberta, 3/4 of the way up we pass a black bear in the oncoming lane, I says to wifey "Wouldn't want the 7 to quit here, we have no protection from the wildlife in an open cockpit car." Sure as sh1t just as we get to the end of the road I hit a pothole about 20" across, not with the front wheel but the back wheel. Til this day I don't know how I didn't see it. Anyhooo, the engine quits and we roll to a stop. Things going through me mind.........there's bears out here, do we have cell service up this mountain for calling a tow truck, the friggin 7 just quit, why? Try to restart the engine, just cranks over, no fire. What the heck happened? Then a light bulb lit up a far foggy corner of my brain! That was a really hard impact on the DS rear wheel. Opened the boot and there it was, tripped impact switch, reset it, fired up the 7 and that's the "peanuts for Peggy!"
Wifey thought I was a hero, and I thought to myself "Dear I know this car just as intimately as I know you", but didn't say it out loud :lol:.
No more bear encounters thank goodness.

_________________
Perry

'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered
Perry's 5th Build the Super Slant 6 Super 7
Perry's Final Build the 1929 Mercedes Gazelle


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PostPosted: February 20, 2023, 7:28 am 
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Posts: 343
You can mount the antiroll bar to the axle too. I had an 84 camaro z28 that came that way. They came in many diameters

Take a look on ebay for reference "1982-2002 camaro rear sway bar"


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PostPosted: February 20, 2023, 11:53 am 
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Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
@horchoha
That's a great story, Perry. I can just imagine how you felt when the engine stopped.

And, yes, remain a hero to your wife. Your secret is safe with us [LOL].

@Sean in CT
Thank you for that reference, Sean. I'm going to look up that Z28 configuration.

Cheers, all

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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