LocostUSA.com

How about 4 of these trailer jacks?

I still think the Mustang is going to be an excellent donor, Justin. And, I plan to answer all the questions you asked, but don't have the answers today. I will publish all the data I can determine here in the build log, though.

Not many people have used the Mustang as a single donor. So, the issues I've raised haven't been answered in full - yet. As they say, "necessity is the mother." That's why I'd like to do the mock-up accurately, so I can come up with good, simple, sound solutions. Some things may also turn out to be non-issues; bigger in our minds than in fact.

I also believe I've found a spindle adapter that overcomes the negative scrub radius issue experienced by Cobra builders, but can't swear to it until I can bolt it all together and measure it. There are a huge range of brake packages for the SN-95 spindles including some from Ford Racing and several well-known third party vendors and production Mustangs.

Stay tuned.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

Thanks for the responses, cheapracer. I don't know yet, what the best setup will be in terms of the multiplane angles, that's really why I'd like this mock-up to be accurate. If I can do it right, It will allow me to do a number of things including study the effects of tire size (rolling radius) on the angles required by the driveline including the differential angle.

The stock Mustang tires and 15" wheels are pretty good sized. I just plan to pump them to the max (45 PSI?) for a larger radius and take air out to flatten them down to get a smaller radius. I'm going to mount them to the diff and roll the whole live axle, wheels and all, into place above the MDF. I'll use some simple screw-driven device to change the pinion angle by placing it between the MDF and the driveshaft flange. I'm hoping there is a near optimal combination for offsets angles and tire/rim sizes.

And, yes, at some point I'll weight the T5 separately. I was surprised to find weights on the Internet ranging from 95-130 lb. for the T5. In fact, I did call around to rental shops to see if somewhat had a scale I could hook between my shop crane and the engine, but couldn't locate one. Our bathroom scale won't handle the engine, that's for sure.

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

Thanks for the suggestion. I actually did consider trailer jacks, but the cheapest I could find were $27.50 each, which would put my costs over $100 just for the jacks. Harbor Freight has some small bottle jacks at around $16 each and they have a 5" or so range, so they would be workable. But, so many guys on this site are so clever and practical that I'm probably overlooking some cheaper, simpler solution available for $20 from the hardware store. At least, that's what I'm hoping for.

Thanks again.

Lonnie

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

Baby coach wheels.................

What about the wheels from a rolling file cabinet (or some such) from the goodwill store?

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"There are times when a broken tool is better than a sound one, or a twisted personality more useful than a whole one.
For instance, a whole beer bottle isn't half the weapon that half a beer bottle is ..." Randall Garrett

Sorry, I can give the preliminary tire sizes front and rear, but left this data out in my earlier response to you, Justin. These are just my best estimate until I get the mock-up completed and the front spindles and adapters together and look at the rear rolling radius issue. I looked at a number of commercial 7 clones such as the Caterham. Westfield, etc. with about equal horsepower and torque figures to my own Locost targets. Here they are:

Front: Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 195/45R15

Rear: Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 255/40R15



There is a chance that 15" rims won't be large enough for the new spindle adapters, upper ball joint and A-arm, but I won't be certain until I put them all together and see. 16" or 17" rims/tires may be necessary.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

I actually have some nice castors left over from a previous project. It's the jacking mechanism that is bothering me. It can be done easily if I'm willing to spend $100 on commercial jacks, but I'm trying to preserve my budget.


Thanks for the response, though.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

just go to the junkyard, and pick up a few of the standard screw jacks... like the one you pictured...

Where did you find these tires in these sizes? I can not find any tire in either of these sizes, let alone Eagle F1 Asymmetric, which don't appear to be offered in anything smaller than a 17. Even if they were available in this size, I would be concerned designing a car around unique overall diameter/width combinations that would prevent alternative options that fit the car to be sourced for replacement in the future.



As far as the lifting/leveling method, scissor jacks would definitely have some advantages over many other potential support methods in regard to their ability to make fine adjustments in height. With three of scissor jacks, two fixtured to support the engine on either side and one supporting the transmission, you could have pretty much infinite adjustment of the drivetrain attitude within the mockup chassis. The "floor pan" base you were planning to used could then maybe just be held at a fixed height off the ground and be used as the "level" reference plane for measuring the relative position of everything else. For the axle it might work to make some adjustable supports (2 more scissor jacks?) that would hold it a given height above the MDF reference plane, with the required height from the reference plane being determined by calculating the axles theoretical location based on whatever combination of ride height and tire overall diameter you are checking against. No wheels/tires necessary and you would be able to check against any possible combination you dream up. I don't even know that casters would really be required for anything in particular.

Just a few random thoughts that may, or may not, actually work...Or ultimately be useful.

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-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie

Here's the official product web page: http://www.goodyeartires.com/tire/eaglef1-asymmetric/

Unfortunately, it looks like they've dropped all 15" tire sizes as they no longer appear in the sizes table (mouse on view full details) there. How disappointing for me.

I've used asymmetrics before. Except for the issue of tire rotation they were excellent tires. With light cars rotation isn't really a problem if your alignment is good and you check your tire pressure regularly. I got a good service life out of them.

Thanks for your ideas.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

I wouldn't get too stressed over it Mate, you have a much lighter car that probably won't do a 1/10 the mileage expected of the donor so in effect you already have a heavy duty driveline.

No doubt, you're right, cheapracer.

However, since this is probably the only car I'll design, or I should say, the only car whose design I'll modify, part of the challenge is coming to terms with all the factors and compromises necessary to produce a good result from my particular donor. Now, being human, that won't keep me from complaining when I find myself in a perceived blind alley. However, I've found the best way to get out of that situation is to talk out loud about it. If you don't think of a solution 15 minutes after you've posted your message (typical), some clever fellow is going to tell you how he did it in such a simple manner that it makes you feel like a total clod and will definitely keep you humble.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

Finally! I'm down to some serious hardware. Although I've had the engine, transmission, rear axle and many other major parts out of the donor for a few days, the front suspension on this Mustang really kicked my butt.

That was true for a number of reasons. First, although the Ford guys went seriously metric on the SN-95 Mustang, they used some atypical bolt and nut sizes in some critical places; mainly 16mm and 18mm in the front suspension. My socket set had a basic 16mm and 18mm socket, but neither of my wrench sets contained 16mm or 18mm and I found I needed them both in a number of configurations (long, bent, combo, etc.) plus a variety of sockets (deep, thin wall, etc.) to get at everything and also apply enough torque to break them free. That meant some delays as I discovered what was needed to get at a particular bolt or nut and went out and got it.

And, let me tell you, that front suspension wasn't going to come apart unless it was a serious plan and effort. The torque on some of those bolts and nuts was just un-Godly. I've got the broken tools to show it too (photo). As a teenager, I assisted a mechanic in removing the cylinder heads on a large diesel engine and I swear it was easier doing that than the Mustang front suspension. But, maybe I was just stronger back then?

When it got down to just the lower ball joints it took me two work days of 6 hours each to get it done. I'll spare you all the details, but I tried everything: pullers; bigger pullers; hammers; bigger hammers; punches; bigger punches; then bigger punches and bigger hammers followed by a bigger puller, etc., etc. The final solution was to keep the nuts and shaft saturated with penetrating oil and under maximum pressure of a puller overnight and then give the “All for Jesus” effort with the longest wrench I could find to fit the puller ram. When they let go it was with such force that the silly chassis rung like a bell – well darn near a bell anyway.

Speaking of which, I left the lock nuts on the ball joint shafts so they would keep the ball joints from escaping when they let go. Additionally, I'd taken care to make sure I they were threaded off the shaft enough to make final removal very easy when they were free. Ha! They let go with such force that the lock nuts were wedged on as tight as could be, but now attached to a spherical ball joint free to move in a sea of grease, i. e., zero resistance This falls into one of those “best laid plans” categories, I'm afraid.

The solution was to dig, cut and pull out the ball joint seals, clips and boot so I could get something on the ball joint shaft and remove the lock nuts keeping the spindle attached to it. Fortunately, I had a pair of narrow vice grip pliers that did the job. Still, it's tough even for vice grips to maintain a firm grip on a shaft with a 7 degree taper (photo).

I had to invent my own little method for getting the struts and springs out. I'd taken so much weight out of the donor that when I went to compress the springs with a floor jack and remove them in the standard way it just lifted the whole bloody chassis carcass instead of compressing the springs. Too funny. So, I had to figure a way to get the maximum leverage possible by putting the floor jack under the tippy-tip of the lower control arm and accept the fact that I was going to lift it off one jack stand nearby. It was a bit of a 3-legged dog situation with the chassis on three jack stands and my little aluminum floor jack under the control arm. It was a little shaky, but it worked. I pulled the 3 upper strut bolts and then (carefully) the two big honking bolts and nuts attaching the bottom of the struts to the spindle. After that I lowered the chassis back onto the nearby jack stand and slowly let the jack down all the way to decompress the springs. And that “gotter done” as Larry the Cable Guy sez.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886

this is where tools with lifetime warranties come in handy...

HEAT HEAT HEAT Torch and a pickle fork and you would be done in 5 minutes.
If you are getting the spindles mapp gas torch on the area around the joint hammer
a good quality pickle (ball joint remover) fork with a mini sledge. You can even lever
up and down on the pickle fork. If it doesn't come loose then, it's REALLY stuck. Use a VERY
large hammer right on the spindle at the side of the joint while applying pressure. Pullers
don't provide the shock load to break the joint.

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Volvo 240/P1800 Based Locost
2004 Aprilia Mille Factory
1988 Volvo 240 5 Speed ( For Sale)
2002 Toyota Tacoma
1999 BMW M3