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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:00 pm 
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Location: Livermore, Calif.
I thought I might do a better job of documenting my Locost build for the second time. I finished (95%) a Miata based McSorley 442E within the last year; sold this car and decided that it was so much fun that I would start a second build but this time using a Honda S2000 for the donor. The first car was a great learning experience so hopefully some of the experience will make the second Locost a better vehicle. Or at least hopefully I won't repeat any mistakes.

For the first car I somewhat followed the McSorley 442E drawings except for the rear suspension area which was highly modified for the Miata independent rear suspension.

I used a 2001 Miata donor and utilized the engine, tranny, differential plus the four corner knuckles and the Miata brakes. I also used the Miata steering column and de-powered and shortened steering rack.

Here's some photos of the first build.


Attachments:
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Last edited by RoyzMG on Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:03 pm 
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After selling the Miata based Locost I looked around for another project and was seriously considering a small V8 addition to an MGB. I decided what I really enjoy is the fabrication much more than the actual driving so back to a "built from scratch" Locost.

I found a salvage Honda S2000 on a web based auction site so decided to purchase a bright yellow 2006 S2000 with a serious "dent" in the drivers side door.

So far I've disassembled the Honda and sold off any useable parts to other S2000 owners.
Again, I'm trying to use the engine, tranny, and differential plus the corner knuckles and brakes. I'll use many of the other parts such as the steering column and maybe the digital instrument cluster.

I just finished sanding my old build table and repainting the top so I can have a "clean slate" for the new chassis.


Attachments:
Door Right.jpg
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2014_0421donor_10006.JPG
2014_0421donor_10006.JPG [ 1.4 MiB | Viewed 971 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:36 pm 
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Location: Charlotte, NC
Do you plan to do a modified McSorley 442e again or something smaller like a book or Haynes? Your first try was a good looking car, I imagine your second try will be even better. Welcome back!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:11 pm 
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Location: Livermore, Calif.
I think I'll keep the same basic dimensions as the 442e. The Honda engine is rather tall and I'll need the extra width for my too heavy frame. I found out in the first Locost that I need the 17 inch wide seats and they barely fit in the 442e. Ah to be young and slim again!

Cheers,
Roy


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:22 pm 
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Location: Novato, CA
Good to see you back at it, Roy.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:17 pm 
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If you do not want to use the cluster let me know I might add the stock gauge cluster not sure yet. I just got My 05 S2000 engine running. Which is very similar to your engine but mine has the throttle cable and your is drive by wire. Your only cost about $500 to tune the stock ECU. By the way you can snap off the immobilizer card in the ECU so it will run without all the security.
Check out my build log in my signature you might get a few ideas. I threw out the plans and went completely custom everywhere.

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Build thread viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14558&p=154928#p154928
Build thread on my Website http://www.mazdarx8.org/2012/12/28/build-your-own-car/


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:34 pm 
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Quote:
By the way you can snap off the immobilizer card in the ECU so it will run without all the security.


You wouldn't happen to know if that can be done on a 2004 Miata engine? I'm running a Hydra Nemesis right now but would like to go to the stock ECU if I could disable the immobilizer.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:07 pm 
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That trick definitely doesn't work on earlier models.

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I can explain it to you,
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:49 am 
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wrightcomputing wrote:
Your only cost about $500 to tune the stock ECU. By the way you can snap off the immobilizer card in the ECU so it will run without all the security.


I'm not really sure what you meant by the $500 tune comment? Are you referring to performance wise or? Also do you have any details regarding the "snap off the immobilizer card in the ECU"? I tried this with my first Locost which used the stock Miata ECU. It was not successful so I had to use the immobilizer "halo" antenna and the stock key.

Cheers,
Roy


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:51 pm 
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Location: Sarasota
Here is a photo of my open ECU. If you look at the top left of the ECU in yours there will be a board on the gap that sits vertically on the board. If you rock it back and forth it will easily snap off. Follow the wiring guide below and it will run perfectly without all the extra stuff.
My car runs and idles but I need to replace an injector so I still have not driven it yet :-(
Attachment:
S2000 ECU.jpg
S2000 ECU.jpg [ 984.72 KiB | Viewed 741 times ]

I have no idea if this would work for the Miata ECU. I would open it up and see if there is a similar board that can be removed, if so try it, worst that can happen is you need another ECU for $50-$100

Here is the relevant wiring information kindly provided to me by Tongboy but I think it came from an S2000 forum.
C101 connector
1 - ignition system BLK/YEL +12v - connect to the ignition key
--2- Air conditioning- not connected
3- starter motor -BLK/WHT- +12v through starter motor switch
4- YEL/BLK +12v from ignition switch- power supply to ECM
5 -BLK/YEL +12v lambda sensor - connect to ignition key
--6- YEL/BLU air pump - not connected if you do not use air pump
7- WHT/BLU - alternator light(on the dashboard) required to get charge!
8- BLU/WHT - VSS sensor connected probably to the speedo gauge - must loop back to ecu A9
--9- YEL/RED - low pressure warning light(on the dashboard)
10- WHT/RED +12v ECM/ immobilizer light - hot at all times
--11- YEL DRL indicator light- probably check engine light but not sure- in my car it is not connected
--12- GRN/YEL - not connected
--13 - WHT/BLK - secondary air injection system- not connected
14 - BLK- ground
--15 -BRN/YEL - DATA LINK CONNECTOR - this is only one of few wires that go to data link connector- rest is probably in the ECU 32P socket.
--16- GRN/YEL air pump - not connected

other connectors that are meaningful - really depends on how much of the honda wiring you keep around.

A15 immo fuel pump relay - goes to fuel pump relay to enable fuel pump
a20 rad fan control - goes to fan relay to enable fan
a24 start switch signal - to starter motor switch
a32 brake pedal position switch - normally open

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Florida State Champion - DSP Autocross
Build thread viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14558&p=154928#p154928
Build thread on my Website http://www.mazdarx8.org/2012/12/28/build-your-own-car/


Last edited by wrightcomputing on Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:54 pm 
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carguy123 wrote:
That trick definitely doesn't work on earlier models.

I think it does. Mine is the 05 with the throttle cable and virtually the same setup as the AP1.

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Florida State Champion - DSP Autocross
Build thread viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14558&p=154928#p154928
Build thread on my Website http://www.mazdarx8.org/2012/12/28/build-your-own-car/


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:10 pm 
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Location: Sarasota
RoyzMG wrote:
wrightcomputing wrote:
Your only cost about $500 to tune the stock ECU. By the way you can snap off the immobilizer card in the ECU so it will run without all the security.


I'm not really sure what you meant by the $500 tune comment? Are you referring to performance wise or? Also do you have any details regarding the "snap off the immobilizer card in the ECU"? I tried this with my first Locost which used the stock Miata ECU. It was not successful so I had to use the immobilizer "halo" antenna and the stock key.

Cheers,
Roy

Later after the car is running you can tune the 06 and newer engines with a Hondata KPro that allows you to reflash the stock ECU. You can lower the VTec and smooth the torque curve adding lower end power. Maybe 10-20HP and TQ across the range with a good tune. Unfortunately with the 05 and older you cannot reflash the stock ECU and need to get a replacement ECU such as the AEM or Hondata which typically run around $1000.

_________________
Florida State Champion - DSP Autocross
Build thread viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14558&p=154928#p154928
Build thread on my Website http://www.mazdarx8.org/2012/12/28/build-your-own-car/


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:32 pm 
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Location: Livermore, Calif.
Paul-
Thanks for the information on the Honda ECU and the immobilizer mods plus the info on the reflashing of the ECU. I'll file this away and in a couple of months (?) when I'm ready to wire the car I'll put it to use. I tried to modify the Miata ECU on my first Locost to eliminate the immobilizer but was unsuccessful even after consulting some computer guru's. I finished the car with the stock ECU but had the wiring setup to use a Megasquirt if desired later. I went so far as to add the wide range O2 meter to the dash.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:35 pm 
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Taking apart a donor car is very educational from the standpoint of seeing what went into the design of the original car. Comparing the first donor (Miata) with the second (S2000), the Honda appears to be heavier and much stouter construction.

The Honda uses a motor powered steering rack which I considered for use. But in measuring and inspecting the rack I could see that it would be way too wide and too difficult to try to modify by narrowing the component. So I bought a used Miata rack and will be narrowing and de-powering this rack for use. So much for power steering! It would have been nice.

The Honda donor was originally driven for many years out in Pennsylvania therefore most of the undercar components were very rusty and extremely hard to remove. The original forged steel "A" arms were a rust encrusted mess. Even though the rear axle half shafts were painted, the salt managed to penetrate the paint and are somewhat encrusted but should be able to be cleaned. Next time I'll make sure the car's history is based in California (no road salt).

Roy


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:05 pm 
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Location: Livermore, Calif.
Moving right along I've got the chassis frame somewhat started with the major pieces tack welded in place. I'm TIG welding the components which is quite a bit slower. It would be nice to have the luxury of owning a TIG and MIG welder but not too practical. The TIG is harder to manipulate since it requires two hands and one foot.

I've got the differential located and tack welded in place. I could not use the S2000 front differential mounts since they extend out too far in front (see photo). I had to fabricate new front mounts and installed them on the bottom of the front housing instead of the top. The rear mounts were used but only had to fabricate new mounting brackets.

The next job will be to locate and design the rear "A" arms.


Attachments:
File comment: Stock S2000 Differential and Mounts
diff 3.jpg
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003.JPG
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File comment: Right side front mount
016.JPG
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File comment: Left side front mount
019.JPG
019.JPG [ 1.42 MiB | Viewed 567 times ]
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