LocostUSA.com

yes i'm taking the subframe and rear end from a supra. i chopped up the subframe just a little to make better mounting points but the differential and suspension points are mostly the same. there is a forward pointed 5thlink in the suspension i'm going to have to shorten and make a new mounting point for but it appears to be pretty simple. it would be done a while ago but other things in life have taken my time and effort away from the locost the last few months.
i believe all 86.5-92 models turbo or non have same parts just usually different gear ratios and turbos should have a lsd.

the evo sounds fun. i never got my talon very past stock before it got totaled and turned into a donor. the 1st gen dsm 4g63s didnt have a much smaller turbo than factory evo(i think just one size smaller, not the turbos come in sizes but i think you know what i mean) but only had like 7.9:1 compression which hurt the lowend and spool up. of course in a locost it should be plenty to start. i aim on being able to keep up with my sport bike so stock wont be enough for long but with a 14b turbo and rwd i figure over 300whp is attainable

i'm glad i've inspired someone for a 4g63 locost. i think i'm a first for a non middy locost andd hoped others would follow. for a higher HP engine option i think a 4g63 is definitely one of the most locost routes

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

The EVO 2-3 engine from the time early 90's was 260+hp strong...but Mistu north america detuned it in order to make a performance jump to the 3000GT/Stealth practical in the customers eyes. If they had left the EVO engine making 260hp in a Talon/Eclipse/Laser it would have been quicker than the bigger car.
If you're not above a little bit of engine work prior to installment you can regain that lost power by simply mixing and matching 1st and 2nd generation parts and massaging the stock parts a bit. In your case you've got the most important piece, the ultra durable 1st generation block. The formula goes kind of like this;
1) 1g block- 6bolt toughness
2) 2g pistons (8.5:1)- cheap
3) 1g throttle body (2mm larger)
4) 2g throttlebody elbow (does not have the bottleneck that the 1g has)
5) 1g (manual) turbo aka. 14b ...beware, automatics had a 13b...
6) modify the exhaust manifold by grinding away the flange inside the collector. Throw away the ring, then take off the turbine housing on the turbo and open it up to match
7) 2g MAF, adapter and K&N filter. Get rid of that canister.
make sur ethat you have a hi capacity fuel pump then get boost gauge and manual boost controller and set to 12 psi and start cranking from there...you'll likely be happy somewhere around 18 before you start running out of injector(stock are 450cc)
9) Counter-Rotating Balance shafts option a) leave them as is, and replace balance shaft belt with the best quality one you can find. b) ELIMINATE them. It's easy DIY (google is your friend), do it now while the engine is out. You lose approx 20lbs between the 2 of them. The engine starts revving way faster and the only drawback is a slight buzziness around 3800-4100 rpm.

In a Locost this engine will be lightning fast. Please keep us posted.

Nice info on the 1g/2g engines. I know that there is also software available for tuning the early cars for low cost / no cost as well. I'll second the recommendation to ditch the balance shafts; I dropped them from my Evo when I had the engine out for a rebuild and don't miss them at all.

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.. in the world

I've got them all don't except these two. I don't want to open engine yet. I never torn apart an engine so I figure I know it runs now so I'll throw it in the 7 and make sure I have it wired and everything right so if its not running I know its not mechanical. I'd like a stroker kit with 8.5-9 compression but that's last on the list of things to worry about.
And I've been looking for a GM MAF and translator. Not as cheap but I like the setup better and adds a little more tuneability I think.

I'm leaving balance shafts. It is noticable without. Nothin that's is unliveable but I don't mind the 20lbs and slightly slower revving. And I need to port match turbo to manifold, already ground down the divider thing in manifold.

With the talon I planned on maxing out the 14b potential and upping to a 16g with a goal of 350 to the wheels but now I figure just see what its like in the 7 with 14b. Figure its half the weight and less driveline loss. I really didn't need a lot a more power just didn't like the off boost in the talon but should b a lot snappier in 7

All great advice. I wish more people would see how cheap lots of power is out of one of these. Then again if they don't know less demand so it stays cheaper for us

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

14b should be plenty. 11.7@113 in my old 2000 pound front wheel drive laser. Also used a GM MAF and translator with an AFC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqO1N9KTqVk Open diff, slight torque steer.

I gave up on using a 4g63 in a 7. I'm looking at a BEC now, but I would love to see a proper completed one.

Low 11's and amazing street handling is my goal so that's good to hear. I'm not sure of tuning wether I'll end up with AFC of MAFTranslator or what but not real worried till car is running and driving then I'll tweak.

And y the giving up on 4g for a BEC? my donor was free and otherwise I wouldn't have used it but my perfect 7 would b turbo rotary or maybe chevy v8 so that's different. And you seem very well experienced in the 4g ways.

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

Seems like you should be at low 11's pretty easily. I can't wait to see this thing completed. It is going to be an absolute monster that is reliable. I wouldn't be surprised if more people start using 63's once their potential is realized.

Honestly I would really like to break into 9's but i'd b really happy with low 11's. I did build it from scratch in my garage so I think it would still b a big accomplishment.

And with a few people rooting me on I feel a little pressure. I really want to succed so others will go the same. The 4g is a great locost way if a person doesn't mind using different donors and want lots of power.

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

If you need any advice on the tuning and build on the 4G63 let me know.

Tim

Nice car. Like the tubular suspension.
And thanks for the offer. For now I figure on pushing 15-16psi out of the stock 14b and just seeing how she does with that so I don't figure I'll need much at first. Other than the electrical gremlins I'm sure I released when I torn apart the wire harness and put it in the 7

If I put money into it I'm jind of leaning towards just a rebuild with 2g pistons, not really aiming for the sky but we all know horsepower is like crack, u always want more so we'll see
Thanks again

What kind of electronics were u running on yours anyhow? Like DSMlink or a SAC or GM MAFT? That's really my biggest wonderment of which route to take if I did go bigger.

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

Thank you,,

I have a few things installed in my driver (car pictured).

Electrically i would at least recommend an AFC to start with or if you go with the GM Mass Air Flow Translator. Both have the ability to trick a stock ECU into providing more fuel to deal with the higher boost.

If you go with nothing you will run into what is called 'Fuel Cut' it is where the computer just can't figure what to do and to protect the engine it just stops firing the coils.

Also make sure you run NGK BPR7ES spark plugs. any of those fancy crap things and you will loose your spark above 14psi.

The 450cc fuel injectors are good for about 300hp but they will lean out when you get much more then that. I recommend 550cc for basis tuner stuff. Also a Walbro 255 fuel pump.

Obviously you will have a custom exhaust, so go no smaller than 2.5 inches and try to do the same for the intake piping.

Just an FYI if you are going to go through the hassle of 2g pistons just buy some JE's or some after market ones. it is WELL worth the extra $'s and will give you much more room to go up and not worry.

The 1g's early years actually have a larger rod in them it is slightly bigger so depending on what year 1g motor you have you are safe to about 400-450 hp as far as the rods go.

I have seen a few 14b turbos push into the 18's but you will find out you end up with what is called boost creep. this is where there is more air running in to the engine than what the turbo or the waste gate can process and you WILL spit the turbo out in no time.

I've built several of these engine as high as 600hp and if you do things right you can get a lot of performance and good reliability out of them.

Tim

i figured an AFC is a good step as it would work with stock or GM MAFT setup or thought about a MAP setup. i'm helping someone build a megasquirt for a turbo miata setup(SteyrTMP here on forum) so i've been considering making one for the 4g once we get his running. never would have considered it in the talon but in the 7 why not and i'd get 100% controllability. but then need a good dyno tuner to get the most out of it. i know of the dreaded fuel cut but not real worried. i nver planned for much over 15-16psi.

i did install a 255lph pump but didnt worry about injectors yet. never got to turn up the boost so i figured i'd worry then.
had the turbo back 2.5 exhaust and always ran NGK plugs. wanted to get some better intake plumbing but no i definitely will/have to.

as for pistons i really just want more compression. never priced 2g over aftermarket so aftermarket is probably way i'd go for that reason of ability to go bigger if wanted. really really want a stroker kit. i'm more fan of higher displacement and higher compression with low/mild boost than high boost and tiny weak(off-boost) motor. i'm not sure in the Locost what the stock motor will b like. thats y i figure just leave the 14b on it for now.
most dsm guys not in the Locost world dont comprenhend the idea of a dsm minus 1500 lbs doesnt need to b a monster. they all give me the whole u need a 16g at least and a list of other crap to make a streetable 4g63 car get close to 11s. but also some people also dont understand the concept of building a car from frame up in my garage.

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

Lets just say the 4g63 has been in my blood for a while, so of course I have to through my opinions in here lol. I dded a 1g awd through college, now I have an evo, and Im building a rear engine car with a 2g motor, so Im getting to know all the generations. I ran the gm maft setup, it was easy to set up and tune even with only 550s. I ran the 14b at 17-18 psi daily for 2 years with no problem, even with autoxing it. I think the dsmlink set up should be easiest since you wont have to build the computer or the maps from scratch, though I never got to use it. I do have ecuflash for my evo now, and I understand dsmlink is similar and as easy to set up. i think the advantage comes from not having to try and set up all of the little stuff from scratch, as opposed to the total tun-a-bility you get from a DIY system.
You may want to reconsider the engine choice if you are looking for great off boost driveability. I know that stroking the motor with high compression helps that, but in the end the head design was not designed around quick throttle response, it was designed around WFO high boost operation. Besides, waiting for a mitsu turbo to spool and hit is just foreplay. good luck on your build, I hope to use you, and several others, as inspiration to have my car running by this summer!!

Thanks for the post. Glad to see another 4g build. Like I said I want to get it together just stock first and then worry about more power. I haven't directly dealt with dsmLink but have always heard good stuff about it. I figured i'd see how my buddy's megasquirt ends up working and if I like it maybe build one just to splice in as a piggyback for fuel control. But first to get her running.

And I know the whole off boost thing isn't the 4g strong point but it was drivable in a 3200lb awd so I figure it should b zingy off boost in the Locost. And like u said its like foreplay waiting for boost, I've always compared it to crack. Can't wait for that hit and always want a little more and a little bigger. Although I've got no crack experiance other than butt crack so maybe I'm wrong
Also hoping it'll be more like my bike. Plenty down low till about 2/3 to redline then WOW. Although boost with the 14b comes way sooner than 2/3rds but same idea

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90 talon as old dd turned into donor for the locost
06 suzuki sv1ks for the kneedragging fix

mitsu 4g63 powered 442e - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7317&start=0

This project still going?

I had a 1996 Talon with around 360hp on a 1G 6-bolt engine and an EVOIII 16G turbo. I contemplated using the car as a doner for a locost but ultimately it was too nice so I sold it. There are a couple challenges associated with this engine in a locost. First off, the engine is very tall, but there are various workarounds for this if you get creative.

The other problems are more interesting. Both the turbo inlet and throttle body face the transmission on a DSM 46G3. Looking at the car from the front in a RWD configuration, the exhaust will be on the left and the intake will be on the right with the throttle body and turbo inlet facing the REAR of the car. My plan was to run an exhaust manifold and turbo of an EVO 8 or 9. It bolts up to the DSM head but would face the opposite direction. A spacer and some creative grinding is required to get the turbo to clear the block. These turbos can brush up against the 400hp mark, or exceed it, depending on which one you get.

For the intake, Magnus Motorsports just came out with a CAST manifold that is available for RWD configuration. It is not cheap but it is nice. Another alternative is cutting up and rewelding a stock manifold so the throttle body is on the other side. I've seen this done more than once.

For engine management I was running a DSMLink V2.5 ECU. The third generation of this ECU upgrade is called ECMLink. It uses a factory EPROM ECU. 1G DSM non-EPROM ECUs can be converted to EPROM ECU for a small fee. ECMLink allows you to run speed density with the addition of a GM IAT and MAP sensor. It also has the ability to use the GM MAF without a translator. It's pretty awesome. I was going to upgrade to the latest version but didn't get around to it before selling the car. But with the version I did have I was able to run 950cc/min injectors and idle and drive like stock and switch between 91 octane and E85.

I'm curious to see how your project goes as I may still be considering a DSM engine (although Miata is more likely for me).