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PostPosted: January 6, 2010, 5:43 pm 
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Glen wrote:
Does the bracket that attaches the upper arm to the strut mount only attach at the upper bolt?


I don't know if I was just tired or dense or combo of both, but I totally missed what you were saying.. I reread it and I finally got it!! DOH!!!

I don't remember why I didn't continue it down on the back side. I went through a couple of different thought processes and although it make simple sense now I never extended it.

They damn near press fit on and a are 1/4 plate, so there is not slop, but it's something I'll have to think about correcting. Planning on making it Dbl Shear before I finish with it so I don't know if anything back there would just be more than added weight!

Input on it?

KS


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PostPosted: January 6, 2010, 7:50 pm 
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I think I personally would have put the upper outboard rod end right above the stut attachment on the upright and put a 3 holed plate up each side then boxed it in (similar construction to your bellcranks), however it looks like what you made is plenty strong, it's just going to have to take more bending loads due to the offset.


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PostPosted: January 6, 2010, 8:18 pm 
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Glen wrote:
I think I personally would have put the upper outboard rod end right above the stut attachment on the upright and put a 3 holed plate up each side then boxed it in (similar construction to your bellcranks), however it looks like what you made is plenty strong, it's just going to have to take more bending loads due to the offset.


If I put it directly above the strut (which was my initial plan), it was going to interfere with the rim clearance (large offset with Subaru uprights) or I was going to have to run 18" rims. I wanted to keep a more "normal" look about it and decided to move it forward a bit.

I think a final form (boxed 1/4" plate) should be strong enough.. I'll just have to watch it for a while when on the road.

I am toying with getting a single metric rod end and bolting it right to the upright and boxing it in at the upper hole, but I haven't built the model yet to see what that would do to the camber. Right now it has a 2.5 degree shift over the entire range (+/-3" travel), so I'm hesitant to mess with it!

KS

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PostPosted: January 7, 2010, 12:51 am 
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Will the vertical square tube behind the rod end clear the rim, seems like it's in that same space?

B85 has some pics showing a spherical bearing mounted right to one hole of a strut mount and I know I've seen another picture on here of someone doing that with a rodend but I can't find it.


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PostPosted: January 7, 2010, 3:41 am 
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Glen wrote:
Will the vertical square tube behind the rod end clear the rim, seems like it's in that same space?

B85 has some pics showing a spherical bearing mounted right to one hole of a strut mount and I know I've seen another picture on here of someone doing that with a rodend but I can't find it.

I've been concerned about putting the rod end over it as it gives the advantage of leverage to the upright (along with the clearance issues). I haven't found a successful adaptation on any car where the joints were behind/before the center along the ID centerline.

:roll: You got me thinking though... I went out and moved the RE down to the upper hole. It trashed my camber as I feared (-2@-3" to +5@+3) so after tinkering with the arms to get the camber back, I found if I move my pick-up points down parallel to the tube instead of over it I just need to shorten the tube (by ~1/2") and I should be back in the proper range. I'll have to see if the arms can be salvaged or if I have to remake them.

Now I realize why I went away from this originally as the hole is 14mm and I have 1/2" REs. The metric RE in this size are un-gawdly expensive and I had other options (metal & argon are cheaper than REs by far!!).. looking at it in the pics though, I see it would work just fine, but the piece of mind using the cast mounts gives is worth the headaches.

Anyone got any killer ideas for a 1mm steel bushing??

Take this in the biggest compliment way Glen.. I hate posting things... but I love the comments and how they make me rethink things!! Thanks!!

KS

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PostPosted: January 7, 2010, 9:19 am 
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Switch to a 5/8 heim end and the bushing will be much easier to make.

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PostPosted: January 7, 2010, 10:18 am 
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It looks like you could just bolt the upper rod end to the rear upright. Double shear is a nice thing, but I think you'd be fine with just bolting it on. That's what my Formula Ford uses. From my memory the upper link, the coilover and the lower frame rails in the rear ( radius rods actually ) are all in single shear.

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figure out the triangulation for the structure now that it's all in place.


I was going to say I was more concerned about all these rear wishbone loads being fed into 1" tubes mid-span. When you car is more complete, you could turn it on it's side with your crane and see how much those tubes deflect. Is that what your talking about triangulating?

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PostPosted: January 7, 2010, 12:21 pm 
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egoman wrote:
Switch to a 5/8 heim end and the bushing will be much easier to make.


Switching to a larger heim doesn't change the size of the hole in the upright, so I'd get no benefit from up rating the heim alone.

I'm stuck either having the hole drilled out to match a larger heim or making a bushing for the already placed heim.

Anyone have input on over sizing holes in cast materiel? What's going to be the acceptable safety margin for it? I'll grab some dimensions from it and post them.

KS

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PostPosted: January 7, 2010, 12:33 pm 
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horizenjob wrote:
Is that what your talking about triangulating?


Yes.. I have a lot of triangulation left to go in these areas. Although planned well on paper, I didn't want to get too far ahead if I needed to move something moved a bit because of something I missed.

So far, I only have a bucket full of scrap pieces and I'm trying to keep it to a minimum!! :)

KS

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PostPosted: January 7, 2010, 12:42 pm 
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Quote:
Switch to a 5/8 heim end and the bushing will be much easier to make.


Bushing 14mm to .5" sounds harder then 14mm to .625". Perhaps he is suggesting drilling out the upright without using those words. So you have two easier choices.

Speaking of these bushings, I wonder if it's a sensible thing to buy over size rod ends in general and then bush them with a bit of plastic or hard rubber material? Wouldn't soften ride much but would take out the "zing" maybe. Some of the best of both worlds? On my Formula Ford the transmission hangs from 2 bolts that appear to have a rubber sleeve where they pass thru the frame. The suspension bolts to the transmission, so even in a performance application sometimes designers put in a little rubber. The rubber appears to be 1/8" or less...

Good on the triangulating... :)

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PostPosted: January 7, 2010, 12:48 pm 
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Here's an inexpensive 14mm rod end
http://www.midwestcontrol.com/buy.php?item=5796

I'm not very familiar with their product line, but I know other people on here have used their rodends.


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PostPosted: January 8, 2010, 3:17 am 
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Glen wrote:
Here's an inexpensive 14mm rod end
http://www.midwestcontrol.com/buy.php?item=5796

I'm not very familiar with their product line, but I know other people on here have used their rod ends.
Midwest will likely never see another dollar from me.

Their product line is fine.. although a bit sketchy on information.. you really have to dig! It's their customer service I abhor!

Their on-line ordering process allowed me to order parts that were not in stock. Then they wanted my CC# again after filling out the info previously on-line so they could process the order. I asked them about the BO parts.. "Maybe in 3-4 weeks" (that was 2.5 months ago now). I convinced them that it would be in their futures customers interest to split the order and ship the BO when they arrived. It took a supervisor to make it happen.

They split the order.. charged my card and still haven't sent the part. The money saved was not worth the hassle!

Caveat Emptor!

KS

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PostPosted: January 8, 2010, 3:47 am 
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OK Glen... Just for you!!! :wink:

After stewing on it all day.. I went out and made it happen. I kept thinking about how much better it would really be and I was sold!

I don't know if I really want to open up the hole.. I have already shaved a bit off the top to make the brackets work, but I'll keep it open as an option. I'm leaning towards getting some shim of the appropriate thickness and wrapping the bolt in the hole. If I use the lower hole to dbl shear it I think it'll work out fine. I could also TIG a couple of .5" washers onto either side and forget the hole in the middle. We'll see. Got a bit of time before it's critical.

OK, so anyway.. here is the renovated upright! Which now has less than 2 degrees of deflection over the entire range! Don't know how that worked, but thanks Glen!

Enjoy

KS


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PostPosted: January 8, 2010, 11:25 am 
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Quote:
If I use the lower hole to dbl shear it I think it'll work out fine.


The lower wishbone connection is under a lot more stress then the upper one. If you can use a 14mm bolt and shim a 5/8" rod end you should be fine. Probably fine even with the 1/2" bolt.

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PostPosted: January 8, 2010, 12:23 pm 
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It seems to me that a custom fastener is needed here. I offer this as a possible alternative. Take a 14mm, (grade 10.8?) and have part of the threads ground down to .500 dia. Then cut some new 1/2" threads on that reduced diameter. I don't really know if threads can be cut on that hard bolt.

I'll leave the single shear vs double shear up to you.


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