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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Thanks for the tips on the rust and the box-brace.

I angled up the lower brackets because of my insistence of using 18" rims. I wanted to maintain a ride height of around 6", I believe final hight is going to be 5.75". This, and diff placement, required I either angle the brackets or make brand new mounting points. I decided to go with the easier of the two.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:04 pm 
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"If you clean a piece with one, it should be repainted quickly, or you're gonna be right back where you started from, "Rusty"!"

So is this going to cause issues if I clean a tube and weld a bracket over top? Will it start rusting underneath the bracket (without metal etch) or will, if I complete the weld, seal it, stopping the rusting process?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:55 pm 
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In the case you're describing, no, I wouldn't think so. You're effectively sealing it all up with the weld. I was thinking more of cleaning up the chassis, with lots of bright, shiny metal showing and then leaving it sitting around in the humidity or out in the rain or whatever. I guess I should have just said, "be sure to put some primer on it soon after cleaning it."

The only way to know for sure is to weld the bracket on, wait a few months ("Jeopardy" theme music plays in background) and then cut it apart and see if there's rust under the bracket. Feel free to do that, if you wish... :roll:

Just kiddin...
:cheers:

JDK

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Cleaned out garage of material/equipment/garbage as a result of completely renovating the basement: check;
Gotten through the first 6 weeks of the birth of our first child: check, and,
Worked on the car for a total of 10 hours in the last two months: check.

I've been working on the front suspension now though, and have some questions I'm hoping somebody can help me out with.

What result am I looking for with the Ackermann Angle in wishbone. I understand the basic concept of Ackermann, but sometimes the results for wishbone spit out a percent and other times its an angle. Am I trying to achieve as high a percent as possible at static with an angle that approaches zero degrees at full turn?

Secondly, what do you guys generally consider a "stationary RC" height, a movement of 1", 2", 3"? I've played around with my upper pickup points and can't seem to get better than a RC height of 2.185" at static, 0.186" (as shown below) and around 4" with a 2" drop. Is movement of 3.5" considered too much?

Lastly, I know, needy hey, are the Upper/Lower chassis pick-up-points generally equidistance fore and aft of each other? So the front upper is +4.5"/rear upper is -4.5" and front lower +7.75"/rear lower-7.75"? If so, how does one introduce caster angle as the UBJ, hub center, and LBJ on my Mustang spidles all appear to pass through the same vertical plane? I'm thinking of using this as an upper A-arm, is it the offset that introduces caster?
Image

This is what I've gotten so far, keep in mind this is preliminary:
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Trochu wrote:
I've been working on the front suspension now though, and have some questions I'm hoping somebody can help me out with.

What result am I looking for with the Ackermann Angle in wishbone. I understand the basic concept of Ackermann, but sometimes the results for wishbone spit out a percent and other times its an angle. Am I trying to achieve as high a percent as possible at static with an angle that approaches zero degrees at full turn?

Secondly, what do you guys generally consider a "stationary RC" height, a movement of 1", 2", 3"? I've played around with my upper pickup points and can't seem to get better than a RC height of 2.185" at static, 0.186" (as shown below) and around 4" with a 2" drop. Is movement of 3.5" considered too much?

Lastly, I know, needy hey, are the Upper/Lower chassis pick-up-points generally equidistance fore and aft of each other? So the front upper is +4.5"/rear upper is -4.5" and front lower +7.75"/rear lower-7.75"? If so, how does one introduce caster angle as the UBJ, hub center, and LBJ on my Mustang spidles all appear to pass through the same vertical plane? I'm thinking of using this as an upper A-arm, is it the offset that introduces caster?

Trochu, Nice build! Not sure I can give you answers to all your questions, but here's a couple of thoughts:

From the F1 "Help" or F2 "Info key" in Wishbone:
Quote:
When STEER is zero, ACKermann percentage (STATic) is shown. When STEER isn’t zero, i.e. some lock is applied, the ACTual and the THeoretical toe differences for perfect ‘rail-like’ tracking are shown instead.
Also, good discussion on preferred Ackermann set-up in Carrol Smith's Engineer to Win.

On the RC movement: Looks like a lot of movement, keep playing with the location of the upper a-arm pivots. Try dropping the upper inner pivots to get about a 10 degree slope in the upper arms.

On the caster angle: Set up an initial caster angle (7 degrees?) through longitudinal placement of the upper pivots, then dial-in/tweak with the Speedway a-arm adjustment.

Hope this helps a little. Others might be able to give you some more concise direction.

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My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Thanks for the responses Tom. I'm still working on finding the sweet spot for the upper A-arm mounts (I'll try lowering them) but I ordered the upper units yesterday. Decided to go with these uppers from Bryke Racing, they were cheaper, seem (according to the picture anyway) to be more durable, and include all required jam nuts vs others I'd seen online. I ordered 6" and 7" long tubes which should give me a total length of 9.5":
Image

Also had some time last night so started fabbing the lowers:
Image

Plan view:
Image

Hopefully I can get the other side's lower built tonight and be ready to install the uppers when they arrive.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:31 pm 
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Hey Trochu, I just went through your build,very nice, Make sure you have enough room for full droop on your rear lower without hitting the frame.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:03 am 
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Thanks David. I've got about 3" of droop before things start protesting and likely 4" before things start breaking, should be enough, even for the roads up here.

Got my steering rack mounts welded in and the rack disassembled so I can depower it. Man, I'd like to go cash in on a Slap Bet win with the guy that decided it would be a good idea to recess a snap ring by about 2.5" in the rack housing! Removal is necessary for disassembly of course.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:10 am 
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Yo, Trochu-
Good looking suspension bits ya got there. I think you'll find the uppers with all that adjustability will be real handy when you're doing the final tweaks on the set-up.

Also good to see your progress in general, car is looking good!

:cheers:
JDK

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Where are you, I'm in the 'Loops. David


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:20 pm 
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Almost have a roller......

Ordered the following "extensions" from Racecraft for my steering rack. Alot more than I wanted to pay at $120.oo but alot cheaper than Steeda for about $150 or my local machine shop to make them at $200.oo just for the collars:
Image

My GAZ adjustable coilovers also arrived, they look really good, thanks Jack! I paid the extra $24.oo for rod-eye ends. Picked up some steering column extensions from the local auto wrecker on the weekend and the prefabbed nose cone and scuttle arrived from COLD. Several months ago, I went to bolt my wheels on, and all my sockets were to big. I went to the tire shop yesterday and tried to order a low profile socket so I could tighten the lug nuts. They informed me it would be better to buy low profile nuts instead, so I did that as well. Wasn't too impressed that the rims came with lug nuts the tire shop couldn't even install :x . Also been spending lots of time doing the little things; checking all the welds and filling any pin holes, grinding off the excess thread of 32 bolts, I had to get 4" long units so the thread wouldn't be in shear, painted the calipers, boxed the rear upper brackets, cut the plate for the shock mount on the lower fronts, etc., etc

As soon as the bushings/spacers and shock mounts I ordered arrived I can put it all together.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:20 pm 
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You are living out the old saying, "The last 20% of project work will take up 80% of your project time." It does often seem to be true.

You're looking good though. It'll be rolling around pretty soon. How long do you have before winter sets in?

Cheers,

Lonnie

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:16 pm 
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Yo, Trochu-
Like Lonnie says, the last 20%... Hang in there!

Car's lookin' good though, I like the look of the front end. Good geometry, methinks. It will be interesting to hear your results with the Racecraft parts. My set of 'extensions' required some work to make them thread properly, as I recall. :ack: I hope your results are better.

Keep us posted on your progress!
:cheers:
JDK

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JD, father of Quinn, Son of a... Build Log
Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:00 am 
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[quote="Lonnie-S"]You are living out the old saying, "The last 20% of project work will take up 80% of your project time." It does often seem to be true."

Didn't I say that in the beginning of my build? Well sorta, I said the last 10% of the build takes 90% of the project. What you strive for is being a 10%'er, that means you're close to the end (as if there's an end to building and adding improvements on these cars).

But hey, we stand apart from 99.99% of the population anyhow becuase we're building our own cars so maybe that makes us .01%'ers. That should make us proud.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:43 pm 
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GonzoRacer wrote:
It will be interesting to hear your results with the Racecraft parts. My set of 'extensions' required some work to make them thread properly, as I recall. :ack: I hope your results are better.

Keep us posted on your progress!
:cheers:
JDK


Well, I almost made the same mistake JD made, ordering the 9/16-18 UNF bump steer kit. Something wasn't quite sitting right about that decision though, so I ripped home from work, grabbed the jam nut and made a visit to Bumber to Bumber and they threaded the bolt onto a 14-1.5 UNF bolt. After a frantic call to Racecraft I got my order changed no problem and the kit fits great. Also figured out the rear shock mounts and for the front I think I'm going to make a "strut brace" similar to what JD did with 1" tubing. Still rolling that one around though.

Cheers!

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