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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: October 14, 2014, 8:12 pm 
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Joined: August 12, 2012, 6:38 pm
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Location: worcester county, Massachsetts
carguy123 wrote:
KB58 wrote:
Slightly off topic but placing the top shock mount at the inboard suspension pivot results in falling-rate suspension.


Why? It would seem to be a rising rate as the further the LCA is compressed the more straight on the force lines become on the springs as it brings the angles closer to 90 degrees.



was wondering that myself. KB, care to elucidate?

wait, are we totally stealing Talon's thread? never mind...

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The B-3 build log: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=13941 unfortunately, all the pictures were lost in the massive server crash

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: October 14, 2014, 9:38 pm 
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Good points, you guys are right. I used the general rule of thumb wrong and it's not always the case, depending upon A-arm length and spacing.

Back to the thread...

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: November 26, 2014, 2:22 am 
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Posts: 107
Location: Worland WY
OK, I'm not dead. I had a LOT of work in the last couple months, and I got a hernia fixed as well. I am still on weight restriction, so very little work done on the little car. Although as I look back at the thread here, I do owe some updates, so here goes. . .

I finished the front suspension, at least until it comes to tuning time. What I got now will hold the front end off the ground and point it down the road. I may need to re-do the rockers later, although I believe that they are probably going to be good. I even got to most of the the front suspension parts painted before it came off cold here. I have then moved to the area behind the seat. I need to put a battery box, and a fuel tank in there, and separate that area from the passenger compartment with some sort of removable panel. I may even be able to do that with weight restrictions. (Anyone know what pressure you put on your abs cutting tube with an angle grinder?)

Attachment:
BothFront.jpg

Attachment:
LeftFront.jpg

Attachment:
RightFront.jpg


I have also decided to use the radiator out of the donor Ford. It was a 1.3 liter, so it oughta be big enough. I mounted it behind the seat, so I am going to need to duct air in and a fan will be necessary. The OEM Ford Aspire radiator is aluminum with plastic tanks on the top and bottom. It mounted in rubber grommets on four plastic pegs sticking up and down coming from the plastic tanks. I lost 3 of the 4 rubber grommets, so I had to figure out mounts. I ended up using short pieces of exhaust tube, with sections of closed-cell foam in them around the plastic pegs. (The foam is pieces of water pipe insulation.) The top mounts aren't done completely, 'cuz I'm not sure what else is going to need to mount to the same area, so right now I just have a couple pieces of welding rod twisted around to hold the radiator in place.

Attachment:
Radiator1.jpg

Attachment:
Radiator2.jpg

Attachment:
RadiatorOutlet.jpg

Attachment:
RadiatorMount.jpg


I also got one of the rear hubs apart and cleaned up. I need to paint it I guess, and I have new bearings and seals for it. Which reminds me, I need to get the axles apart so that my friendly machinist can make up the axles I need from the parts I have.

Attachment:
RearHub1.jpg

Attachment:
RearHub2.jpg


I need to sort out a gas tank yet. I thought I might use an old propane tank, but that is heavy. A 5-gallon red plastic gas can like you use with your mower would be ideal size, but I don't know if I can mount the needed filler/outlet/inlet/float stuff in it. Does anyone have an idea for a good, (cheap) fuel tank in the 3-5 gallon range?

Anyway, I'll shut up. Everyone wants to see the pictures anyway, right?

TALON


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: November 26, 2014, 9:21 am 
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Joined: September 22, 2005, 8:12 am
Posts: 1879
Location: 4AGE in S.E. Michigan
How about an old outboard motor tank or some of the larger generators and gas power air compressors have 5 gallon tanks? Dave W


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: November 27, 2014, 1:35 am 
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Location: Worland WY
I have looked at small engine and also motorcycle tanks, but here's my problem. Maybe it is just a head problem. I am going to need a fuel pump, and a regulator, so I am going to need both an outlet at the bottom as well as a return line back from the regulator. Small engine and motorcycle tanks only have a single outlet because they are gravity feed to the carb. So I need another bung in the tank. If I had a reliable way to add a bung to a plastic tank, I could use a gas can. I don't trust my welding enough to add a bung to a metal motorcycle tank.

I have seen brass tubes that go through a hole and gasket and screw together to make a barb on a tank, but that sounds like a guaranteed leak in a flexible plastic tank. I think it was an RV part for water, can't seem to find it now. . . (did I mention that they gave me good drugs with this surgery?)

Maybe I'm just paranoid, has anyone used anything like that?

TALON


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: November 27, 2014, 2:12 am 
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Location: san francisco bay area
You can plumb the return line in between the suction side of the fuel pump and the fuel tank. ... Not the best method imhop but it works.

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: November 27, 2014, 2:40 am 
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Location: meadview arizona
to do what Jack says, it might be benificial to use a large diameter gravity line from the tank to the pump, that way the system thinks it is just an extension of the tank

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: November 27, 2014, 3:08 am 
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Location: Worland WY
Now there's an idea I hadn't thought about. . .

Makes sense. What are the downfalls of running the return line back into the suction side? Air bubbles?

TALON


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: November 27, 2014, 10:03 am 
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Don't they have plastic fuel cells in 5 gal. capacity with multiple inlets and outlets?


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: November 27, 2014, 12:18 pm 
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Location: worcester county, Massachsetts
Talon wrote:
I have looked at small engine and also motorcycle tanks, but here's my problem. Maybe it is just a head problem. I am going to need a fuel pump, and a regulator, so I am going to need both an outlet at the bottom as well as a return line back from the regulator.

Maybe I'm just paranoid, has anyone used anything like that?

TALON

Nope. Talon, the B-3 fuel system is similar to what you're going to do: tank feeds a 4-5 psi electric pump, pump pushes the fuel up to a Mr gasket 1-6 psi adjustable fuel regulator, and then the carb rack. there's a fuel shutoff between the regulator and carburetors.

to feed the motorcycle carburetor you're using, you'll want to set the regulator to its lowest setting, to mimic the gravity feed fuel pressure. mine is set to 1 psi. no return line is necessary at such low pressure.

my fuel pump is controlled by a switch on the dashboard, to prevent residual pressure in the line flooding the carbs while its sitting, I shut the pump off and run it a minute or so before shutting down. I also shut the fuel off at the fuel regulator.

you really won't want much more than 1 psi to feed the bike carbs. early on I'd tried running mine around 3, and it would load up and flood at idle.

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The B-3 build log: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=13941 unfortunately, all the pictures were lost in the massive server crash

The beginnings of the Jag Special,
https://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=19012
Again, all pictures were lost.


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: November 27, 2014, 1:40 pm 
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Location: san francisco bay area
Talon wrote:
Now there's an idea I hadn't thought about. . .

Makes sense. What are the downfalls of running the return line back into the suction side? Air bubbles?

TALON

Yep, pretty much. .. They flush out eventually though thru the injectors just like a returnless system.
Whoops... Aren't you running carbs? If so it won't be noticeable since float bowls are open to atmosphere.

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: November 27, 2014, 3:19 pm 
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Cool, I understand my direction now. I have two things going on here, first, I gotta get fuel to the carb now, and second, I want to be able to use the same setup (mostly) to run the sequential injectors I have planned for later down the road.

Rob, it is kinda interesting how different our projects are, but how many similarities there are. I'm happy to follow your lead.

TALON


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: November 28, 2014, 10:52 am 
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About the radiator bottom mounting.
The thing about foams is that they deform with the load applied to them over time and are affected by heat, UV, and collect dirt, water, oil, etc. Eventually the radiator will come in contact with the knife edge of the tube and will cut through the radiator with vibration. You could use universal grommets, vacuum hose split and fit over the edge of a hole in flat stock to locate the pins, heater hose over the pin through the flat stock, strips of coolant hose for some isolation between the tank flat and the flat stock, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: November 30, 2014, 8:46 pm 
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Posts: 107
Location: Worland WY
MiataV8 - I hope it doesn't perforate the tank. I'll look at something stiffer though, because you are right about foam. This closed cell stuff is pretty stout though. I have seen sections of it used for water pipe insulation for years, and once removed, the clamp dents come out within minutes. a car is a whole different environment though.

I think I solved the fuel tank question this weekend. I was showing my Wife what I was looking at doing, and she got excited, then non-excited all of a sudden, said something about "Christmas coming" and left. I have only been married 25 years, but I think I might be getting a present! I don't know for sure, but I think I'll hold off on the fuel system until next year.

I also hit a milestone on the build recently, time wise at least. I started building 3 years ago Thanksgiving weekend. By next Thanksgiving, I should be driving it, rough at least.

TALON


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 Post subject: Re: G10 Middy build
PostPosted: December 1, 2014, 6:57 pm 
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Don't know if you saw my fuel tank for the reverse trike. It is a modified marine tank. See page 4 and 5 for the mods:
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=11384&start=45

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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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