LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently January 20, 2018, 1:09 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 271 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: March 16, 2016, 6:23 pm 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 5787
Location: SoCal
I'll take more pictures tonight.

The decision's already been made to build another of the same. I doubt a V6 other than a VW VR6 could fit in the engine bay, but it would be an interesting thought experiment for future builders.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://www.midlana.com/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: March 16, 2016, 6:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 22, 2005, 10:29 am
Posts: 398
I get it. At this point with all the development time that you've already logged, a motor change would be taking on a way unnecessary amount of additional work. I posed the earlier question as a hypothetical "If you were doing it all again...."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: July 7, 2017, 8:02 pm 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 5787
Location: SoCal
July 2017 Update:

Still have the car. Engine is back in, stronger than ever, whatever that means. Ran it from about June of last year to November, at which point I fabricated composite ducting to run air from above the windscreen to the now-horizontally-mounted intercooler. As noted before, I really don't like working with composite. It's a combination of: messy, smelly, unhealthy, poor shop layout, and fussy. Never mind painting it; the plan is to find an appropriate shop - probably a hotrod shop - and have them finish it. I'll tell them "I don't want a show finish on it - an '8' is fine."

The end result was that around November of last year two things happened: I got burnt out on working on composite, and the car in general, and our fishpond and filtration system literally fell apart. After around 20 years straight of designing, building, and writing two books about building two cars, I was ready for a break, so I have no regrets about taking some time off from that.

Regarding the pond, I was all for tearing it all out and filling it in, but my crafty wife said something along the lines of "you're really good at building stuff. I bet you could design and build a better one." I bit - hook, line, and sinker, and have been working every day on that since around November 2016. The funny thing is, even while I'm digging out in the yard, sweating away, and the little voice says "wouldn't you rather be sanding composite?" Nope!

As messy and unfinished as the yard appears to be, the new pond setup is actually about 95% done (though using a car analogy, that means there's still a lot to do, and there is). If anyone cares, filtration consists of two aerated bottom drains, a self-built rotating drum filter, a moving-bed biological section, two sand/gravel filters, and a UV light. I just enjoy building stuff.

The last picture is of a yard visitor and shows what a nice camera and macro can do.

Image

Image

Image

Image

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://www.midlana.com/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: July 8, 2017, 4:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 3218
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
Nice job on the pond, Kurt. That kind of fits my definition of a pool, though. :lol:

Nice job on the scoop too. I see it dives under your top-mounted brake light. Those are the "unexpected factors" when we retrofit something, aren't they? It sure is a lot better than your "vacuum-closing plastic flapper" you had previously, though. :mrgreen:

Cheers,

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: July 13, 2017, 9:44 am 
Offline

Joined: September 19, 2009, 12:33 pm
Posts: 396
KB58 wrote:
The decision's already been made to build another of the same. I doubt a V6 other than a VW VR6 could fit in the engine bay, but it would be an interesting thought experiment for future builders.


Here's the mockup I did way back when of the Taurus SHO 3.4L V8 in a Midlana frame.

Image

Image

Image

Cozy for sure, but not impossible.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: July 13, 2017, 9:49 am 
Offline

Joined: September 22, 2005, 10:29 am
Posts: 398
A 90 degree OHC motor would be a problem - they're bigger than a small-block Ford. But I've seen compact 60 degree V6s. The problem is finding one with a good aftermarket ECU situation and a manual (Or dinosaur box, as they're becoming).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: July 13, 2017, 1:23 pm 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 5787
Location: SoCal
That fits surprisingly well.

Yes, there are some really sweet engines out there that should fit fine. The tiny Mazda V6 is just, well, tiny. The VW VR6 should fit fine as well. Of course, if the builder's willing to move tubes around, then that opens the floodgates to virtually any level of insanity... That any V8 would fit as-is, is pretty nuts.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://www.midlana.com/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


Last edited by KB58 on July 13, 2017, 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: July 13, 2017, 4:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 19, 2009, 12:33 pm
Posts: 396
kreb wrote:
A 90 degree OHC motor would be a problem - they're bigger than a small-block Ford. But I've seen compact 60 degree V6s. The problem is finding one with a good aftermarket ECU situation and a manual (Or dinosaur box, as they're becoming).


The SHO V8 pictured above is a 60 degree V8 which helps somewhat. It has the Ford Duratec V6 bolt pattern, which means a Mazda6 V6 manual transmission will bolt straight up. At least one Taurus SHO has been converted to a manual transmission using this tactic.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: July 29, 2017, 10:46 am 
Offline

Joined: January 31, 2008, 5:34 pm
Posts: 709
Location: SW Wes Consin
I hear you about the composite work. Any decent panel beater ( which I am not ) could whip those scoops out in a jiffy. The big hurdle is the different tool set.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 11, 2018, 1:36 pm 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 5787
Location: SoCal
January 2018 Update:

Worked on the composite intercooler ducts until I got sick of them, then delivered them to a small paint shop with the instructions, "call me when it's done." Many weeks later they called, noting that it was more work than expected... well, yeah, that's why I gave it to them! The pics show them freshly-arrived, sitting loose on the car. Saw one negative post later, that I had "ruined" the look of the car. Meh, it just changes it. Given that my design influences include: the Lotus Seven, sprint cars, the movie Road Warrior, and IMSA race cars - it is what it is, deal with it.

Consequences of adding the ductwork: It's no harder to get in, but tougher to get out due to losing access to the overhead tube I used to hoist myself out with. Test drives showed both expected and unexpected benefits. Expected was that it provides a bit of shade, but unexpected was that it's reduced wind buffeting by about half! In hindsight it makes sense that it's preventing air from flowing up over the top edge of the windscreen, which generates a negative pressure above the passenger compartment, which in turn sucks in air from the sides, beating the occupants about the head and shoulders. Now it's more like a breeze than a hurricane.

As far as how well the ducting works thermally, I cannot offer up hard numbers because while there's an air temperature sensor on the outlet of the intercooler, there isn't one on the inlet side. That's mostly because there are no more spare inputs on the ECU and I don't currently feel motivated enough to add one through other means. All I know is that the IAT (Inlet Air Temperature) always reads ambient temperature. Anyway, with the ductwork done, it was time for a retune.

In early December I took the car in for a "checkup" by one of the best tuners in the U.S. The reasons for doing so included: not knowing root cause for why the engine blew up (this is Engine V2.0), not having a warm and fuzzy feeling that the previous tuner did everything right, me changing compression, cams, exhaust manifold, intercooler, and turbine housing, and being unsure whether I missed anything in the tuning department.

The first thing the tuner asked was "why is cam timing locked out?" I didn't know because I stayed away from both cam and ignition timing. At home and on the street, there's no way to safely know what they should be set to, so I left them as set by the previous tuner. After correcting that, he then mentioned that ignition timing was off as well. At the end of the 4-hr session, the results of his changes were striking, finding 10-30% more torque between 2000-4000 rpm and 15-20% from 4000 on up. The improvement was enough that we mutually agreed to reduce boost to 15 psi, where it still produced 410 ft-lbs torque on 91 oct gas and 450 ft-lbs on E85. Horsepower was 475 on gas and 530 on E85. That'll do... (FWIW, there is a dash-mounted knob which sets boost and it's normally set really low.)

During the tune, he mentioned that IAT was high, which was surprising given the new intercooler and ducting. After repositioning a cooling fan however, it all started working. Immediately after a full-power pull, I put my hand on the inlet end of the intercooler and nearly burned myself, it was that hot. Half way along the intercooler body, it was warm, and the outlet end tank was at room temperature. Nice. As an aside, on the street it's not possible to do any sort of intercooler temperature testing, even with a second sensor. To really heat up the air, the engine has to be at full boost for more than maybe 10 seconds, and by that time the car's breaking every speed limit by a big margin.

I left the tuning shop knowing the engine was rock-solid in the tuning and power department, but with drivability issues still unresolved. For those of you who will be using aftermarket ECU, expect to spend many days adjusting idle, off-idle, and throttle transitions. That consumed several weeks of free time, but now the engine starts and idles smoothly without problem. Leaving or approaching stops, the car no longer stalls. Little stuff like this is a really big deal when driving on the street and makes the car much more, what, OEM?

Image

Image

Image

Image

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://www.midlana.com/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 11, 2018, 10:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: January 13, 2008, 9:07 pm
Posts: 915
Location: Glendale AZ
Love the Video befor the rod.

You must be in the F1 range with that Power/to/weight ? :cheers:

_________________
American 7 5.0 T5
Lotus 15 ish?
908-3 Sti.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 12, 2018, 12:05 am 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 5787
Location: SoCal
Speaking of videos, forgot to add the Dyno tuning, https://youtu.be/wLQVmW9NZZ4

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://www.midlana.com/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 12, 2018, 1:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: March 30, 2011, 7:18 am
Posts: 1249
Location: central Arkansas
KB58 wrote:
on the street it's not possible to do any sort of intercooler temperature testing, even with a second sensor. To really heat up the air, the engine has to be at full boost for more than maybe 10 seconds, and by that time the car's breaking every speed limit by a big margin.


You might try taking the car to a test-and-tune day at a drag strip. The faster turbo guys can easily heat-soak an intercooler in a single pass. Even if the Midlana doesn't, it should still be able to put enough heat into the cooler for useful testing.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 13, 2018, 8:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
Posts: 3218
Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
530 HP? Man, you must have to really watch how you press that gas pedal?

It sounds like fun, though.

Cheers,

EDIT: I looked at the tuning video. What ECU system are you using? Are any stock EFI components used?

_________________
Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 13, 2018, 9:50 pm 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 5787
Location: SoCal
On the street I set boost low so it's probably around 250 or so; it only makes 530* hp number on E85 and high boost, and the only place I'd use that is on large tracks like Autoclub Speedway or big Willow Springs. Just a couple days ago someone was lecturing me on how much power I "should" have. I countered that we run on large tracks, and with the very high drag of Locosts, the power's needed to keep up in the straights. My brother pulls 160 mph down the straight at Autoclub with a 430-hp LS3 in his Stalker. His lap time is faster than most anything, but said toward the end of the straight, the much-more aerodynamic OEM cars (often with less power) are catching up fast.

I used to use a Hondata KPro (a modified OEM ECU) but at the time they couldn't/wouldn't do closed-loop boost control or flex fuel. I switched to a standalone AEM Infinity that does all of that and got to learn the ins and outs of tuning!

* For whatever reasons, Dynopack dyno's seem to indicate about 20% higher (I've been on two different once and they both read the same) than in-floor drum type dynos, so the "530" is more like 420 hp if you're going to compare.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://www.midlana.com/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains, http://www.kimini.com/book_info/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 271 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
POWERED_BY