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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 1, 2018, 12:27 pm 
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Joined: March 15, 2018, 6:03 am
Posts: 95
Hi Rob - thanks for giving these basic details - not many people do - and I find these processes fascinating... especially as I am planning to build the sides first, laid flat (to ensure the suspension mounts are symmetrical), and then join them together with the cross pieces.

It always makes me smile when some people give a photo of the first piece of tube being cut... and the second photo is of a half-welded chassis... lol.

And I'm eager to see how you ensure the flatness of the frame, on the concrete floor.

Thanks, MangPong.


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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 1, 2018, 2:23 pm 
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Location: worcester county, Massachsetts
Hey Mang!

I am of the opinion that if you're going to do build log, it should be farking complete, every detail is picture worthy, be cause who knows what other folks might find meaningful or useful.

Besides, I know I'm stepping away from the usual build table conformity, so articulating the process helps me review what I've done as I read back thru my posts. People read them and then have their own ideas and share them, and I find that helpful.

I'm building the PJS, its my own idea, but its being audited buy the community here. This is a great community, encouraging, supportive, full of good ideas. There's no way that's not helpful.

Also, I'm an attention whore. I know it, I embrace it, I live it. ;-)

As far as keeping the chassis flat, one must decide on what tolerance is acceptable. Everybody desires the nominal, but that's a little unrealistic. I'll accept .090-.120 twist, and about the same out of square. The B-3 has proven that I can build a vehicle that will go straight down the road and ride square and level, and those were about the tolerances I accepted for that.

...as measured by My Calibrated Eyeball (tm) ;-)

I have my weld program in my head, based on my B-3 experience, and I'm expecting the same sort of results, with regards to how flatness and squareness will be affected. .

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Last edited by robbovius on June 1, 2018, 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 1, 2018, 4:53 pm 
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The garage floor was good enough for ole yeller, and very unfortunate for ferrari. :cheers:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cultur ... yeller-ii/

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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 1, 2018, 4:56 pm 
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Location: That point where the humidity and the temperature combine forces to destroy all that is good
As I am using XJ6 parts as well, I shall be following your build rabidly.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 2, 2018, 7:45 am 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
The garage floor was good enough for ole yeller, and very unfortunate for ferrari. :cheers:
Good article! I especially liked the comparison of Ole Yeller I and a "Lotus Seven that got its ass kicked in a bar fight."

Some very famous cars have gotten their start with a drawing on the floor...
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:cheers:
JDK

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Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 2, 2018, 1:31 pm 
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Joined: May 27, 2006, 9:46 pm
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
^^^"Vrooom! VroooOOOOmmm!!! Screeeeeech, Waaaaahhh (screech!), waaaahhh (screech), WAAAaaaaAA (chirp), waaaaaaa....!!!"

Okay, that might have been me....I can dream, can't I?? :roll: :D

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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 3, 2018, 9:10 am 
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zetec7 wrote:
Okay, that might have been me....I can dream, can't I?? :roll: :D
What didja say? Sorry, I couldn't hear you, I was too busy going "Vrooom! VroooOOOOmmm!!! Screeeeeech, Waaaaahhh (screech!), waaaahhh (screech), WAAAaaaaAA (chirp), waaaaaaa....!!!" :rofl:

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Quinn the Slotus:Ford 302 Powered, Mallock-Inspired, Tube Frame, Hillclimb Special
"Gonzo and friends: Last night must have been quite a night. Camelot moments, mechanical marvels, Rustoleum launches, flying squirrels, fru-fru tea cuppers, V8 envy, Ensure catch cans -- and it wasn't even a full moon." -- SeattleTom


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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 5, 2018, 8:36 am 
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Location: That point where the humidity and the temperature combine forces to destroy all that is good
alll rrriiight then... nobody told you to stop wooorking! (drumming fingers on desk waiting for updates)

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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 12, 2018, 10:22 am 
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Location: That point where the humidity and the temperature combine forces to destroy all that is good
(scratching nervously at throat) "Ya'll got any more of them updates?"

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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 13, 2018, 9:08 am 
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Joined: August 12, 2012, 6:38 pm
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Location: worcester county, Massachsetts
Racoon, yes in fact I do ;-)

Since our last episode...

I had several more tubes to cut before getting on with actual welding, and so last Sunday 6/3 raided my Pile of Steels for resources...lookit that, the most organized I've ever been on metals storage, lemme clue ya. I'm so proud.

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From those I cut several more lateral tubes, cleaned the ends, and set them in place on the layout lines I'd marked on the floor...

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...and discovered that the floor had a high spot, which was causing a vertical misalignment between the passenger side forward taper and the seating box. I attempted to chisel it down (seen here marked with red crayon), but that was ultimately a fail, which killed activity for that day.

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.

Time passes much too quickly (when we're together laughing...) but

I had a plan though, and that's some foreshadowing.

The following Tuesday I worked from home, and at lunchtime I'd gone to the nearby builders supply place and bought a bunch of 4x8x16 concrete blocks, and a few half-cinderblocks, with which to support the chassis tubes up off of the floor, and off of that high spot. But, the floor was still okay for the seating box, and so Friday 6/8, using my lasers, I realigned the tubes to the layout, and magnetted (to coin a word) everything together.

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On Saturday, after yoga, once again, FIRSTIES!!!

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Just as I had done the B-3 chassis (and gotten very good results) my weld program starts with the welds on the top surface joints of the seating box, check square, and then, flip it over and weld the bottom surface joints. Inner fillets don't happen until the whole of the bottom chassis plane have their top and bottom surface joints done. Trust me, it works - as I so often admonished everyone that they should believe during the B-3 build - MINT. That whole "tack the whole structure and then finished weld at the end" business? Nope.

once I'd got the seating box welded...

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...and it was time to attach the forward tapers and front cross tubes, I raised everything up off the floor onto the concrete blocks and realigned to the CL using the lasers (man, those things are GREAT, really key to setting and maintaining alignments), and then got on with the top and bottom surface joint welds.

Here ( thanks to Pam for the action photography) I'm welding the top surface joint of the drivers side forward taper tube and up rightwards in the pic can be seen the laser projected onto the box screen and forward crossmember

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Once all the top and bottom surface joints were welded, I got on with the internal fillets, and outer corners (the open ends are going to get .125 thick caps) and then sat back to admire my handiwork. Also, I had happened to run out of wire just at the end of the last weld, so, done. Here in this view, you can see the arrangement of the concrete blocks, which both raised the chassis bottom up off of the floor, and held everything in alignment. How did it work, you might ask? Everyone, together now..."MINT!!"

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Monday night I was out there again, cutting the 17-inch long verticals and the upper front crossmember. I had loaded a new roll of .035 into the welder, magnetted and squared the two front verticals with the upper front crossmember, and began welding that together, but was having crap results - and unfortunately did not document with pictures - and the welds were especially shiat. Turns out my wire speed was too high, and that the markings I'd made on the wire speed dial - which had been great for the 16-gage tube on the B-3, were utterly wrong for the .035 I was using now. the wire I'd welded the chassis bottom with was what ever was left over from then B-3 chassis, lo those five years ago. I'd thought it was .035...maybe it was .030.

anyway, I had to re-do those welds on the forward uprights, and so cleaned the crap welds off with my angle grinder and coarse flap-disc, and then ground a bevel into the joint again...

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...and rewelded them, to much more pleasing results.

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then I magnetted the front upright box into place for looks, and that's where it sits right now, until tonight, when I once again bathe in the glorious light of the Magickal Mig Lamp, its fumes wafting serenely thru the air...

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I think I need a wheels-included mockup...

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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 13, 2018, 11:21 am 
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robbovius wrote:

Time passes much too quickly (when we're together laughing...)

...


ooh ooh! I know! I know! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI-BMDnti4c

(I used to play bass in a horn band...this was a favorite)

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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 13, 2018, 4:35 pm 
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Location: That point where the humidity and the temperature combine forces to destroy all that is good
Master has given Dobby updates! I'm FREEEEE! Impressive work! I've been trying to find a set of blueprints for the Kougar chassis, which I swear to C'thulu I actually saw free here on the interwebs once.... and now they've disappeared into the aether. I've been soaking up information from every source possible; kit car forums, the HAMB, restoration forums.... and trying to develop a workable concept from all of that, and waiting to see how your build progresses.... yep, I'm a leech.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 13, 2018, 5:35 pm 
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Joined: December 29, 2007, 10:41 pm
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Location: Vancouver, BC
Speaking of leeches, would it be possible to get the overall dimensions of the XK6 motor? After reading that you've picked up an XJ6 and Raccoonman is doing something similar with a Jag, it got me thinking about what to build next which lead me to start thinking about something along the lines of a 50's sports racer using Jag running gear. Finding an old rusty pre-1986 XJ6 here in Vancouver is proving to be difficult, hence the question on basic overall dimensions.

Rod


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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 13, 2018, 9:20 pm 
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Location: worcester county, Massachsetts
Rod, will do, i have the overall envelope measured. I'm just back in from the G'raj now, I'll get it out of my notes tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: The Pamilcar
PostPosted: June 14, 2018, 9:25 am 
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cs3tcr wrote:
. . . it got me thinking about what to build next which lead me to start thinking about something along the lines of a 50's sports racer using Jag running gear. . . .
Rod


You might want to look into the Lister Jaguar, Rod. There were multiple versions of the bodywork, including an aero version by Frank Costin. They have a relatively simple chassis, but are really cool.

V1 ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXFcXJ7G7wI

V2 ==> https://www.wallpaperup.com/106174/1959 ... ars_g.html

Please excuse the hijack, Rob.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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