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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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 Post subject: formular ford
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Location: meadview arizona
i am thinking about building a car for parking lot races, and it struck me that a single seater would be easyer than a two seater, then i looked around and found a vw trans axle then the next day a friend said can you fix the engine in my bob cat excavator, what did i find a 1600 x flow ford with head problems.

a new adapter to fit one to the other is $369.00 from b.a.t.

i am quite good at braizing with sicbronze so all i need is a load of bits to complete the parts list amd some round tube, i will use round tube because i want it to look like a 60's racer.

i need a/a front spindles from a triumph spitfire with the hubs, discs and calipers.

a porche 914 steering rack

all of which i know is in a junk yard near my house.

the problem is what do i use for rear uprights and brakes, i intend to use constant velocity joint shafts, so it will have reverse lower wish bones and a top link with two radius arms going forward, all the original cars seem to use special castings.

has anyone got any ideas, this is an exersise at the moment and until i get all the parts together i will not start the build.

note here, i need to get almost everything for nothing if i can, if i can determined what to use for the rear, i can wait till it comes along.

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


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 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:30 pm 
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The voice of reason
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Location: Massachusetts
The uprights are the one really nice special parts on those cars. Not counting the Hewland, I suppose.

Since you've got a VW transaxle to start with, I'd try to build something from VW parts. Then you'll have an easy time with getting driveshafts. You can get a part like this to hold the bearings and stub axle, just weld it into something you make.

The Formula Fords run the transaxle upside down. They use a dry sump, but maybe just try welding up a shorter sump.

Good find on the motor. I hope the head is OK. Ford does sell all this stuff now. They had a run of new blocks made for both the normal xflow and the Lotus version. THe Fiesta is basically similar, but their heads use much smaller valves to go with the 65 HP they produced.


Attachments:
17-2707-0.jpg
17-2707-0.jpg [ 84.08 KiB | Viewed 2152 times ]

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SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.
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 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm
Posts: 1539
Location: meadview arizona
i am aware of all you say, the basic diference between a hewland and a vw trans is straight cut gears and side plates to suit the application, ie. lotus brabham.

in england the parts to dry sump the 1600 x flow are an easy find at autojumbles, and i have worked the heads many times, we used to fit 1300 rods to give a better stroke to rod ratio, likewise intake manifolds and carbs, basically all the parts you would need to make a very good engine, and not have to pay stupid prices, i have people comming back and forth from england once maybe twice a year, and some good scorces for parts.

the use of vw hubs, well they are a bit strange because they are made into the swing arms, i have some, but would prefer to use something off the shelf as it were, with disc brakes, using the cv joints to do the adapting.

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


Top
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 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:10 pm 
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Posts: 4721
You can cut the arm off the trailing arm hub, use rabbit uprights for a bolt together arrangement, or any upright and outer cv you wish as long as your willing to have adapter shafts made for about $250 / pair.

_________________
My reverse commuter trike build log: viewtopic.php?t=11384
Fitting glass and weatherstripping: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6451
Growing various fruit trees, berry bushes, and wine grapes in zone 7b.


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 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm
Posts: 1539
Location: meadview arizona
tomorrow i will get some sizes from the vw shafts and hubs, although the cv's on the vw have a very long spindle because they are for drums and i want to use discs without going to the aftermarket.

is there nothing rear wheel drive out there that will fit on vw shafts or alternatly nothing that would replace the whole vw shaft and inner cv.

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:05 pm
Posts: 4721
Use the vw rabbit or similar front spindle, brake, and axle on the rear. It should bolt to a bug irs. Thats what I mean by bolt-on.

Use two left or two right rabbit axles depending on your desired track width.

I think this is what is used on the Corbin Sparrow, RQ Riley's XR3, and black jack zero, which use the bug irs trasnaxle with flipped ring and pinion for front engine, fwd, which also works for mid engine rwd. Clear as mud? :cheers:


Attachments:
rabbit lwr bj.jpg
rabbit lwr bj.jpg [ 39.63 KiB | Viewed 2046 times ]
rabbit spindle.jpg
rabbit spindle.jpg [ 90.85 KiB | Viewed 2047 times ]
71 bug.jpg
71 bug.jpg [ 14.79 KiB | Viewed 2047 times ]
81 rabbit left.jpg
81 rabbit left.jpg [ 11.21 KiB | Viewed 2047 times ]
81 rabbit right.jpg
81 rabbit right.jpg [ 9.7 KiB | Viewed 2047 times ]

_________________
My reverse commuter trike build log: viewtopic.php?t=11384
Fitting glass and weatherstripping: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6451
Growing various fruit trees, berry bushes, and wine grapes in zone 7b.
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 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm
Posts: 1539
Location: meadview arizona
thanks for the pics and info,but the problem using a front spindle is, i want to use reverse lower a arms, and radius arms that run forward past the engine,
if i use the vw fronts, i would have to fabricate something to put in the bottom hole of the upright, but its probably got enough going for it to be a good starter, i'll just have to look at one closely.

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:33 am 
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The voice of reason
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:47 pm
Posts: 5678
Location: Massachusetts
You can use a reverse wishbone, one leg will need to tilt upwards to the steering arm. You will have to weld tabs onto the upper and lower arms legs to make the clevis for the trailing arms.

You can also look into "micro stubs". That is less cheap though. They are shorter stubs and are made to work with sealed bearings hubs. Then you need to make uprights again though.

_________________
Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
Car9 Roadster information - models, drawings, resources etc.


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 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm
Posts: 1539
Location: meadview arizona
thanks for all your posts, when i get to the bottom of this i will post again, i am thinking that if i get shafts made from shafts that fit at one end, then the world is my oyster as they say.

i will look into lotus elan hubs as an option

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm
Posts: 1539
Location: meadview arizona
so having shelved the drive shafts for the moment i decided to look at inboard brakes,

then there was aloud clunk from my crainium and smoke from my ears, could the disc hats become adapters for fitting any drive shaft and hub combination i would like.

answers please

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Automotive Encyclopedia
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:05 pm
Posts: 4721
Adapters stack tolerances and it is best if things turn as close to being on center versus an orbit of the center as possible. Slip on rotors have very little material for machining a adapter, plus they expand and contract with normal brake operation.

I suggest L-shaped control arms instead of A (reversed V). It would be similar.

If you must have that arrangement, just use a miata or similar upright and have axles made.

_________________
My reverse commuter trike build log: viewtopic.php?t=11384
Fitting glass and weatherstripping: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6451
Growing various fruit trees, berry bushes, and wine grapes in zone 7b.


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm
Posts: 1539
Location: meadview arizona
i have made disc brake units before, and am able to pay attention to what i'm doing so i think i could make something suitable

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:30 am 
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Automotive Encyclopedia
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:05 pm
Posts: 4721
Okay. With that background, I'm suprised you even asked the question.

I sincerely look forward to seeing how it is done.
:cheers:

_________________
My reverse commuter trike build log: viewtopic.php?t=11384
Fitting glass and weatherstripping: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6451
Growing various fruit trees, berry bushes, and wine grapes in zone 7b.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm
Posts: 1539
Location: meadview arizona
sorry, no intention to brag, it's just that two or more heads are better than one, and this one is gettin old.

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: formular ford
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm
Posts: 1539
Location: meadview arizona
what i was thinking, is a boss , male stepped to fit the trans flange and female stepped to fit the cv joint with flange around the middle or there abouts to bolt the disc to, moving in or out to get the correct caliper spacing?

_________________
drag racers lament

oh to go down to the strip again where the blacktop meets the sky
all i ask is a small block and some fuel to make her fly
with slicks a smokin pushrods pokin next round i'll get a bye

she's up on song the shift was strong in the finals to boot
it's back to the pits and take it to bits and don't forget the shute
the final round was good and sound so come on give me the loot


Top
 Profile  
 
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