LocostUSA.com

Those are #3 phillips. Using a #2 phillips screw driver tip will do that. Sometimes a wide enough flat blade screw driver will work. Clamp a vise grip to the screw driver shaft, put the starter on a block of wood between your legs or ratchet strap to something heavy and vertical, then use most of your effort on your palm to keep it engaged while you rotate with the vise grip to crack it loose. You can also use a #3 bit, socket, and a 3/8 drive. They also make impact screwdrivers designed to be hit with a hammer to crack them loose.

Once you have them out, you can have the thread pitch checked if you don't have a tap and die set, then order new screws as allen socket heads or #3 phillips from ebay or mcmastercarr. Post the thread size if you cannot find them.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

Excellent advice. Thank you.

Just a dumb question here without seeing the starter in my hands, but.... can the "sacrificial starter face" be turned 180° to move the starter centerline further away from the ring gear?

_________________
Perry

'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered
Perry's 5th Build the Super Slant 6 Super 7
Perry's Final Build the 1929 Mercedes Gazelle

I think so with some modification. Here's a pic of the starter face. If the locating nub and inner mounting ring are ground off, I'm guessing it would fit in 180° orientation, and would relocate the pinion gear relative to the flywheel. I could try this after the 5 step program below and/or with a different starter face.

I don't think the motor body would clear the block and pan.

I was reviewing your videos from inside the bell and noticed that by removing the minimum amount of material when machining the adapter plate (slightly cheaper/quicker to machine that way), Kennedy inadvertently made the collar around the starter gear a locator boss for the starter with this adapter plate. It should not be a locator and there is no need for any material around the starter nose collar, much less a close fit. Instead of machining away the collar on the modded starter, I would;
1) rotary file the center opening in the adapter plate at least an 1/8. A permanent marker down the edge of the opening will help you gauge your progress in grinding until the mark is removed.
2) recheck manual extension of the bendix on the modded starter with it pulled outboard (ground lip against outboard side of adapter plate)
3) If it extends/meshes, push it inboard (unmodded lip against inboard side of adapter plate) to see if it will extend in that position.
4) If the gear extends to mesh with the ring gear in both starter positions, then the problem is the center hole was a little off and the clearance hole is not big enough to allow for it. An unmodded starter should work now. You can blow out the shavings from grinding the center hole or leave them. It won't hurt anything in the bell.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

The way this is resolving itself, it's all the more mysterious how it ever worked!

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

Quite the adventure...The pitch diameters of the pinion and ring gear don't have to be perfectly tangent for it to work, but it probably helps!

So I finally was able to remove the starter screws to pull off the starter's face. This was no easy task. Multiple techniques were used w/out success. Finally, success was obtained with the use of an Irwin Hansen screw extractor. See pics below for general interest.

And after more shaving of the modified starter's mounting ring (see pics: modified vs original), I mounted the starter face on the adapter plate and inserted the pinion gear.
I then operated the gear manually to see if gear/flywheel engagement was improved. I believe it was. See video: https://youtube.com/shorts/e9SCDc5eaKE?feature=share

However, I am wondering should the engagement be perfect every time or just on occasion when manually operated?? Will the fully functioning & spinning starter help it slip into gear, better than my fingers simply pressing on the pinion gear?? Ran out of time today to test.

MiataV8 - I was wondering about that as well. Why two ways to locate the starter (inner and outer rings)? I, however, didn't want to mess with adapter plate itself, just yet, since there would be no going back. What if i completely shaved off the inner ring on the starter itself or at least 1/2 of it. would that have the same effect?

Starter faces...

Hooray! We're engaged!
Your video says shims were added also? As for sometimes not meshing, the half starter is only partially supported and will rock a bit. You may not need to do anything else to use the modded starter body. Fwiw, those screws have a lot of engagement and do not need to be super tight. Based on the condition of the screw, it looks like the deepest threads in the motor half of the body and the screw are damaged and need chasing with a tap and blow out if a blind hole. Anti-sieze on the new screws would be a good idea. A mechanic or machinist could tap that and point you toward the right size screw to replace them. Run both screws in lightly seated before tightening them with a manual screw driver.

Yes, the starter nose collar could be removed but the collar serves a purpose where the tight fit of the adapter plate around it does not.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

We are engaged indeed!!! Success! I am very happy. It's been ~two months working on this problem.

I took the modified, shaved face of starter B and placed it on starter A's body (which did not have screw hole issues). I then bench tested and decided to install on the vehicle. Two metal shims (a total of 0.1" in thickness - actually your design) was added to the left side to relocate the starter from the flywheel.
The starter engaged the flywheel on the first attempt and the observation was repeatable! The car starts!

See attached video: https://youtu.be/m0nahjDHDDY

Thanks again for your assistance and to all the others that chimed in. Now I just need a decent day to take her for a spin. It's been a little chilly lately.

Quick update here. The car has been performing well, and is now starting right up without any drama. Have taken it out on a couple of warmer day rides.

This morning wasn't one of them. Had an early appointment to get the TR-82 a NYS Vehicle Inspection that I didn't want to break. A bit nippy (23°F) on my journey but well worth it. The car passed and I am good to go for another year. Very happy again.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

Does the feeling of satisfaction you have now exceed the tribulation you had to endure?

These builds can be a bit of a wheel of fortune spin. Congrats on solving the issue.