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 Post subject: 2011 Yamaha R1 track toy
PostPosted: March 1, 2015, 9:50 am 
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Joined: October 3, 2009, 1:33 pm
Posts: 28
Location: FL
This is my first build log, which I think is in the spirit of the non-traditional build logs. I am retired and living on a modest fixed income so low cost is in my vocabulary but is not the end all be all of this project.
My current project is to build a single seat mid engine track car. I expect it to have modest recurring costs for the level of performance achieved. Until two months ago I was flirting with the idea of locating the engine beside the driver , as that potentially reduces the wheel base about 20 inches and has very roomy packaging space, but the frontal area penalty was the deciding factor for me in choosing to locate it behind the driver. Once I started welding tubing a decision was made, a traditional longitudinal driver and engine configuration. The base material for the frame skeleton and bulkheads is ASTM A513 1 ¼” X 16GA square tubing (120’ was the initial purchase), and stiffness to be augmented by bonded aluminum skin (6061 T6 16GA). The roll bar is to be 1 3/8 X 0.95” DOM tubing.
I am a build to fit kind of guy, so I have been making purchases for about a year.
Wheels: (4) 13 X 8” magnesium center lock rims; (4) 13 X 10” Kodiac 3 piece center lock rims
Drive line: Quaife ATB Differential from Dodge Neon 2.4L Turbo (SRT), halfshafts (2) left side, differential oil seals (automatic). Dodge Neon (PT cruiser ) front hubs (4) 5 on 100mm
Engine(s) 3 2009- 2011 Yamaha R1s, a 2009 that was misrepresented as a never been raced motor, was gutted and is being used as a mock up to: 1)weld up Titainium headers routed out lower right side of engine, 2) Modify the oil pan for dry sump operation and eventually 3) to be a fixture for motor mounts. When I bought the first engine I bought it at a breaker as a kit car package, but all the components I wanted were not supplied, I did get the ECU and wire harness, but the gauge cluster was not supplied ($450) as well as a bunch of sensors relays and tip over detector. Next time I’ll start with a complete wrecked bike.
Fuel pump: Purchased off ebay ($90) built a housing to mount in position similar to stock gas tank so I can utilize stock gas lines and not have to figure out the supply pressure for the motor and it will retain the low fuel indicator (pics at a later date).
I have plenty of ideas but no plans, just going to build it to fit me. I have been in a number of formula cars which ranged from uncomfortable to painful to drive, that is not to be the case for this build. I am a driving instructor for several organizations providing HPDE events and want a toy that can be driven for 4 hours in a day and at the end of the day you look forward to day two’s fun to begin.
So here’s my start the drivers compartment size: The chalk lines don’t show to well, but this is how I selected the length, width and height for the drivers compartment. I plan to build the driver compartment ,first to fit me, then add the engine bay with the rear bulkhead containing the lateral suspension pickups, the longitudinal loads to be fed into the front bulkhead of the engine bay structure. A similar structural bay for mounting the front suspension attached to the front of the drivers compartment.
Attachment:
File comment: front view of drivers area
driver1.jpg
driver1.jpg [ 48.58 KiB | Viewed 2445 times ]

The chalk lines don't show to well but were recorded for implementation.


Attachments:
File comment: side view of drivers area
driver2.jpg
driver2.jpg [ 55.97 KiB | Viewed 2445 times ]

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R1 single seat track car, in progress
Maxima VQ35 mid-engine 2 seater track car, on hold
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PostPosted: March 1, 2015, 11:33 am 
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I like what you're doing, especially building it to suit you. I got most of my design done but I just can't bring myself to the session of sitting on a cold concrete floor for measurements. Maybe I can just take the measurements sitting in bed and use a mattress for my seat.

There are all sorts of recommendations for seat angles. Are you following any or writing your own?


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PostPosted: March 1, 2015, 12:53 pm 
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Joined: October 3, 2009, 1:33 pm
Posts: 28
Location: FL
Bobber, I ended up with a 70° seat back angle, as I prefer an upright seating position and it results in a shorter wheelbase. The picture is at ~45° (plywood back). The engine height is 28 5/8" to the top of the airbox, which will put it below the roll bar, a good plan I hope. I plan to have the seat as part of the chassis structure and layered with 1" foam padding for comfort.

_________________
Thinking is the greatest leverage on effort
Great workmanship will not turn a bad idea into something good
Poor workmanship can ruin a great idea
R1 single seat track car, in progress
Maxima VQ35 mid-engine 2 seater track car, on hold


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PostPosted: March 1, 2015, 2:14 pm 
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Sounds like your going to have fun. A couple of quick comments. I always thought my Formula Ford was comfortable. it was a '78 and before that a '72? Maybe you drove newer ones that were more of a tight fit? I'm just asking so I know what your trying to make more comfortable. The parts that were uncomfortable for me were if my legs touched tubes, they would get bruised from the cornering forces.

On my formula cars the steering column went between the brake and the clutch, so the clutch was offset a good bit to the left.

The seat should be pretty snug, but still comfortable. If you are loose in the seat at all, it will wear you out when cornering and braking.

:cheers:

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PostPosted: March 1, 2015, 2:40 pm 
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Joined: December 14, 2008, 1:07 pm
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How are you going to set up the drive train, Glen?

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PostPosted: March 1, 2015, 4:04 pm 
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Joined: August 18, 2014, 11:20 pm
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glenbinegar wrote:
This is my first build log, which I think is in the spirit of the non-traditional build logs. I am retired and living on a modest fixed income so low cost is in my vocabulary but is not the end all be all of this project.
My current project is to build a single seat mid engine track car. I expect it to have modest recurring costs for the level of performance achieved. Until two months ago I was flirting with the idea of locating the engine beside the driver , as that potentially reduces the wheel base about 20 inches and has very roomy packaging space, but the frontal area penalty was the deciding factor for me in choosing to locate it behind the driver. Once I started welding tubing a decision was made, a traditional longitudinal driver and engine configuration. The base material for the frame skeleton and bulkheads is ASTM A513 1 ¼” X 16GA square tubing (120’ was the initial purchase), and stiffness to be augmented by bonded aluminum skin (6061 T6 16GA). The roll bar is to be 1 3/8 X 0.95” DOM tubing.
I am a build to fit kind of guy, so I have been making purchases for about a year.
Wheels: (4) 13 X 8” magnesium center lock rims; (4) 13 X 10” Kodiac 3 piece center lock rims
Drive line: Quaife ATB Differential from Dodge Neon 2.4L Turbo (SRT), halfshafts (2) left side, differential oil seals (automatic). Dodge Neon (PT cruiser ) front hubs (4) 5 on 100mm
Engine(s) 3 2009- 2011 Yamaha R1s, a 2009 that was misrepresented as a never been raced motor, was gutted and is being used as a mock up to: 1)weld up Titainium headers routed out lower right side of engine, 2) Modify the oil pan for dry sump operation and eventually 3) to be a fixture for motor mounts. When I bought the first engine I bought it at a breaker as a kit car package, but all the components I wanted were not supplied, I did get the ECU and wire harness, but the gauge cluster was not supplied ($450) as well as a bunch of sensors relays and tip over detector. Next time I’ll start with a complete wrecked bike.
Fuel pump: Purchased off ebay ($90) built a housing to mount in position similar to stock gas tank so I can utilize stock gas lines and not have to figure out the supply pressure for the motor and it will retain the low fuel indicator (pics at a later date).
I have plenty of ideas but no plans, just going to build it to fit me. I have been in a number of formula cars which ranged from uncomfortable to painful to drive, that is not to be the case for this build. I am a driving instructor for several organizations providing HPDE events and want a toy that can be driven for 4 hours in a day and at the end of the day you look forward to day two’s fun to begin.
So here’s my start the drivers compartment size: The chalk lines don’t show to well, but this is how I selected the length, width and height for the drivers compartment. I plan to build the driver compartment ,first to fit me, then add the engine bay with the rear bulkhead containing the lateral suspension pickups, the longitudinal loads to be fed into the front bulkhead of the engine bay structure. A similar structural bay for mounting the front suspension attached to the front of the drivers compartment.
Attachment:
driver1.jpg

The chalk lines don't show to well but were recorded for implementation.


Awesome! Sounds like you're off to a great start. If I was to build my car all over again, I would have gone with an R1 or GSXR 1300 engine, or something similar.

As mentioned previously, I would look to Formula Ford chassis designs, and perhaps Spec Racer Ford as well for structural layout. Hundreds of successful past examples, and alot of great vintage examples can be found here:
http://www.britishracecar.com/index.html

Also, I would design the chassis based on the Upright/Hub Carrier upper and lower ball joint/pickup points, and connect the dots accordingly. Determine inboard suspension points targeting ride height, camber gain, caster, and roll center height. I've found OptimumK software to be invaluable in this respect. A free 2-week trial can be had here:
http://www.optimumg.com/software/optimumkinematics

Have fun, and welcome to the madhouse.

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Last edited by LateralScience on March 1, 2015, 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: March 1, 2015, 5:10 pm 
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LateralScience wrote:



I get a 404 error on that link

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PostPosted: March 1, 2015, 6:10 pm 
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Joined: December 14, 2008, 1:07 pm
Posts: 215
Location: Vacaville, California
carguy123 wrote:
LateralScience wrote:
http://www.britishracecar.com/index.html/
I get a 404 error on that link
Delete the final "/".

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You can have it fast, cheap and reliable -- choose any two!


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PostPosted: March 1, 2015, 6:23 pm 
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Joined: December 4, 2011, 6:19 pm
Posts: 755
Hi Glen,

I'll be watching your build with interest.

Have you heard of/read this book? http://www.amazon.ca/dp/1845841239/ref= ... 20_TE_dp_1

Good luck! Post lots of pictures.

Bill

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PostPosted: March 1, 2015, 10:10 pm 
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Joined: October 3, 2009, 1:33 pm
Posts: 28
Location: FL
horizenjob, my first formula car experience was in a formula V, home brewed, it bruised knees and ribs regulary. The last I sat in was a 89 Van Diemen formula Continental, by buddy Rob who raced it regularly had bruised shoulders and shins after each race weekend. You are right about the seat fit, and since I am building it to drive (really fast, of course), I am making some compormises in seating position and vehicle height for comfort.
Dauntless, Chain driven differential. Dodge Neon STR turbo Quaife ATB, axles and hubs, though I will be making my own Aluminum Alloy hubs and uprights. I have built a canister to enclose the differential and sprocket damper assembly. Designing the differential carrier at present, will post pictures when completed.
Lateralscience, you are right about designing from the hubs in. I wrote my own suspension analysis program back in the early 90's when I build my first mid-engine chassis. Now I am using Vsusp to look at suspension response. I am going to build my own uprights, the front pivots will be inside the wheels, At the rear I am still looking at moving the pivots outside the wheel to increase their separation, resulting in lower loads being fed into the chassis.
Bill, I have Tony Pashley's book, lots of good info there, but not much design direction and how to get there. My bibles are Carroll Smith's books (Prepare to Win, Tune to Win and Engineer to Win), and Alan Staniforth's Competition Car Suspension for practical car set up.
Thanks for the interest in my project, I have found many good ideas and some fantastic workmanship on the forum, I hope to provide a little of the same in return.

_________________
Thinking is the greatest leverage on effort
Great workmanship will not turn a bad idea into something good
Poor workmanship can ruin a great idea
R1 single seat track car, in progress
Maxima VQ35 mid-engine 2 seater track car, on hold


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