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 Post subject: Dio Tipo build 2, or 1?
PostPosted: March 9, 2019, 4:29 am 
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Not sure if this is a second Dio Tipo build if I finish it before the one I started first? :?

Looks like I need to do a build for profit, yah I know, that always works out! :roll:

I have a body and can get as many more as I like.
I have a TR4A rolling chassis.
I have a tube bender and TIG welder.
I've already done the main portion of a Dio chassis from scratch, so altering the TR chassis would be fairly easy.

I have a choice of drivetrains on hand:
Both need to be freshened but cost is similar.
Hopped up Buick 225 V6/Muncie M20 (or T5).
2.8 Miata and five speed.

The real question becomes which drivetrain would be more likely to bring the best price?
The rest of the car will look the same either way.
I personally lean toward the Buick as the Dio Tipo's looks and TR4A chassis are clearly "Old School".
The Buick 225 would be "Period Correct" and dead simple to install or maintain.
Oh, and a bit more power, but maybe not as much RPM.

But would the more modern Miata parts attract more money?
DOHC would look the part of an exotic race car but it's very unlikely that the original F.I. will fit under the body.
That means lots of custom fab for ITB's, or an easier dual Weber conversion.

I did look at my row of engines and the Miata is not much taller than the Buick or even a Spitfire 1500, without the bulky EFI on it.
Not sure where the best market is for this, period correct retro build for "Adults", or retro look and modern engine for "Kids" ?

I'm also contemplating cutting off the rear of the TR chassis and converting it to four-link.
I've driven a lot of TR3/TR4 live axle cars and well remember lifting the inside wheel when cornering moderately hard.
Maybe that's a feature, not a bug, as it keeps young drivers, as I was, slowed down a bit? :wink:

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Last edited by RichardSIA on April 22, 2019, 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: March 9, 2019, 9:16 am 
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Id say the ability to swap drivetrains easily will attract more buyers.

Consider all the hours spent, and indirect costs that cant be measures. Your hourly rate may be 1-3$ an hour You need to know what people will pay for this type of car. Maybe the market is strong? The only way to know is built it and see what price the market is willing to bear.

Having said all that.. i think miata due to parts and aftermarket support.

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PostPosted: March 9, 2019, 9:57 am 
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airframefixer wrote:
Id say the ability to swap drivetrains easily will attract more buyers.

Consider all the hours spent, and indirect costs that cant be measures. Your hourly rate may be 1-3$ an hour You need to know what people will pay for this type of car. Maybe the market is strong? The only way to know is built it and see what price the market is willing to bear.

Having said all that.. i think miata due to parts and aftermarket support.


I agree. There may be many Miata aficionados that would feel totally at ease looking at a unique car with familiar drivetrain. It may increase your marketability.

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PostPosted: March 9, 2019, 10:11 am 
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I tried to build a car using Miata parts in an old school body. (Devin, Kellison) I found the Miata engine to be really tall. I would just make sure to double check that.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: March 9, 2019, 12:48 pm 
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I'm trying to clear space to get the chassis into the shop so that I can mock up the Miata engine.
I had to go to extreme efforts (Dry-Sump!) to get the Alfa engine into the scratch built chassis and keep it under the body.
I will try to compare Alfa and Miata later today.

Buick (and SBF) into TR has been done many times.
I would not see the Buick as less easily replaced than the Miata as 231/3.8 V6's are readily available.
The 225 odd-fire has a unique sound and I have it on hand, so little expense to use it.

I used to deal in Noble P4's and Ultima's, so have some experience in building kits for profit.
I would just do the Buick but have some concern that it might not be the most popular choice with "Kids".
Plan is to put the car on BAT when finished.
A few Dio's have been sold there and brought decent money.

Have to do something, the day job does not sufficiently fund my own toys.

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PostPosted: March 9, 2019, 4:33 pm 
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I'm not sure how many "kids" are into our kind of cars anymore.

What were the engines in the ones that sold for good money?

I personally think the V6 is a cool choice. But, what do I know! :)


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PostPosted: March 9, 2019, 4:56 pm 
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Previous engines for cars on BAT were TR3/4, Ford V6 and Ford V8.
I think there have been SBC and BOP/Rover versions built but not sure what they sold for.

Never heard of a Miata, or even Alfa being done before.

Just now heading to the shop to take measurements.

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PostPosted: March 9, 2019, 7:52 pm 
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So what does the body look like?


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PostPosted: March 9, 2019, 9:55 pm 
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Here is one on the factory site http://diocars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/dio-ambro-forsalepic3resize.jpg
It is also the car in my avatar.
Mine will have full road equipment.
And I verified that I have a complete spare 225 odd-fire for parts if needed. :)
The 225 I have has had some very serious head porting done, it may flow more than the later 231 "Tall port" heads.

Image

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PostPosted: March 11, 2019, 4:16 pm 
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"...Which engine will bring the best price?"

I have no idea, but that's never stopped me from jumping in :lol:

It's a tough call, but my school of thought would be whoever buys this turn-key car from you is not as likely to be as deep in the hobby as you are, and therefor may be less inclined to go out and tune/wrench/adjust on the old-school 225... In a very stereotypical way, I'd assume your buyer is more into the showing/driving it mode than the need to occasionally chase engine gremlins (not saying the 225 isn't a good motor, but if you want 'starts every time, dead-on reliable,' I think the Miata wins)..

As for your old vs young buyer, I'll be 52 this summer, and I think my days with carbs, points, and plug wires are behind me, and I'm not even sad about it.. I love the 'newer' technology that's available, and if I never again have to fiddle with a finicky carb, or file a set of points while on the shoulder of the road, that will be just fine :wink:

So to the point, I'd run the Miata lump if it can be made to fit.. I think the vast majority of your buyers will appreciate it's reliability and economy.. if you do get an 'old-skool' customer, they'll likely be the type that can swap in the motor of their choice anyway..

Either way it's a winner with that body :cheers: ..

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PostPosted: March 12, 2019, 2:53 am 
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Measurements decided this for me, it's got to be the Buick V6.
I do have a core 3.8 I could build, but the 225 odd-fire has had a lot of head work done and I've driven it.
Made very good power even with the old very heavy Jeep flywheel.
In a light car and with a reasonably light flywheel it should be plenty fast.
And the odd-fire has a unique sound.

Turns out a MIata engine is the SAME height as an Alfa, and I have already had to dry-sump my Alfa engine to keep it under the body. :shock:

Will probably have to cut a hole in the bonnet for the Buick air cleaner but I can try to clean that up with a "Shaker hood" type cover if necessary.
If you don't know what a Shaker Hood is, ask you Dad. :wink:

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PostPosted: March 12, 2019, 6:50 am 
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RichardSIA wrote:
Will probably have to cut a hole in the bonnet for the Buick air cleaner but I can try to clean that up with a "Shaker hood" type cover if necessary.
If you don't know what a Shaker Hood is, ask you Dad.
"Shaker Hood"... The lady in the picture is wearing one... :rofl:
Attachment:
Shaker Hood.JPG
Shaker Hood.JPG [ 37.14 KiB | Viewed 1531 times ]


A buddy of mine said he knew he'd blown up the engine in his '68 Mustang when oil came out through the Shaker scoop. And he was right... :ack:

:cheers:
JDK

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PostPosted: March 12, 2019, 11:02 am 
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The tape measure does not lie :lol:

No worries.. there's surely a decent size buyer pool out there for nearly any direction you take it, and a shaker hood is cool all day long :wink:

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PostPosted: March 19, 2019, 1:18 am 
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Holy samolians!

Decided to see about getting one of the old "Cal-Custom" hood scoops I had in mind for this build.
I used to buy these for about $5.00, or get them for free since they were outdated and heavy.
Now?
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.
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Would you believe $400.00 - $500.00! :shock: :BH:

Looks like I will find a different scoop, or make something similar.

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PostPosted: April 22, 2019, 11:12 pm 
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Well it's official now, hot-rod Buick 225 V6 and T10 close ratio trans. :D
Scored a CR (2:20 first gear) cast iron T10 for only 300.00 on CL, and a new clutch kit to match for only $90.00 at the Summit Racing warehouse.
Of course my bargain will be diminished by the time I locate a shifter and linkage. :BH:
And then there's the price of getting a reasonably light flywheel. :ack:

Looks like I will be making this a "Period Correct" sort of build, all vintage goodies from the frame on up. :)

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