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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: January 12, 2015, 9:39 am 
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Location: Connersville, Indiana
Like maybe making the grille and windshield angles the same?

Sometimes that kind of stuff works, sometimes it just looks strange. I think it depends upon whether or not the viewer notices the sameness. If they do, the concept is dead meat. I suppose that means showing the concept to people who are unaware of what you've actually done.

Bill


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PostPosted: January 12, 2015, 11:33 am 
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BBlue wrote:
Like maybe making the grille and windshield angles the same?

Sometimes that kind of stuff works, sometimes it just looks strange. I think it depends upon whether or not the viewer notices the sameness. If they do, the concept is dead meat. I suppose that means showing the concept to people who are unaware of what you've actually done.

Bill


What Bill mentions above, and what you've hinted at in your most recent post are all fundamental issues in art and design. If you haven't seen or heard the word "concinnity" before try looking it up on Google or Google Images. Actually, similarity of shapes and repetition of elements can work for you in a design. If you have a good public library try browsing through some books on 2D and 3D design. Design Basics by David A. Lauer is a really good, readable book on fundamentals that may help you focus your attention as you approach these problems.

Lots of artists and designers work just as you're doing and construct things full size using mockups. However, there are alternatives too such as sketching and clay sculpting. Sketching is cheap and fast. You could also take a digital photo of your profile as it is now and then try out adding in different windshield angles and shapes in a computer program like MS paint (limited) or a 2D drawing program (mo' better) of which there are several free ones.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: January 12, 2015, 12:24 pm 
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john hennessy wrote:
i also think the grill needs to move forward.


I was thinking of making the grille vertical, which would move it forward as well. The grill opening would get smaller on top making it more of an oval shape.

BBlue wrote:
Like maybe making the grille and windshield angles the same?


Interesting idea.

Lonnie-S wrote:
If you haven't seen or heard the word "concinnity" before try looking it up on Google or Google Images. Actually, similarity of shapes and repetition of elements can work for you in a design. If you have a good public library try browsing through some books on 2D and 3D design. Design Basics by David A. Lauer is a really good, readable book on fundamentals that may help you focus your attention as you approach these problems


This is something I'll look into. This car is about achieving a certain look so art definitely applies. I already have a car I built myself so now the challenge is one that I've styled myself. I've seen other people's home creations and no matter how well built, most are ugly (to me at least). If I can't get a mockup that looks good then I'll just scrap it and move on to something else.

Lonnie-S wrote:
You could also take a digital photo of your profile as it is now and then try out adding in different windshield angles and shapes in a computer program like MS paint (limited) or a 2D drawing program (mo' better) of which there are several free ones.


My job is designing big industrial machines, at least for the short term. They are totally about function so there is no "design" as in the commercial world. I use both AutoCAD and Inventor daily so doing my car in 3-D on a computer would be like work. I agree completely that either sketching programs or 3-D modeling is faster and more efficient. You can try many things quickly without using up a bunch of supplies. I'm happier sitting in the garage sticking pieces together then taking them off and doing it over. Sometimes I just sit and look at it without really accomplishing anything but that's OK. I think I have about two months on this now and still have a ways to go but I'm not worried about the time, I'll reach the end sooner or later.

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PostPosted: January 12, 2015, 1:28 pm 
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proportions are critical in design, remember this rule of thumb, 3-5-8 this is very important wether designing a car, the placement of an ornament on a mantle over a fire place or building a cathedral.

placement of a wheel in a sweeping fender would also require this ratio to look asthetically pleasinging that if the overall length was 8 then the wheel would be 5 further forward and 3 would be at the front, even wheel size is the same, rake of a car also follows this formula in the relation to the ground where in general from the ground to the rear would be 8, the front would be 5 and the difference between the two would be 3.

even in a photo of a car, the car should not be in the center of the picture but off set in the frame to these ratios, this emphersizes motion and an illusion of speed.

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PostPosted: January 13, 2015, 9:17 am 
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I didn't get out to the garage last night but I did some project related stuff. Amazon should be sending me two metalworking books and one design text sometime next week. I like books. I don't have a smart phone or an e-reader and I don't watch TV or movies on my computer. I know, its a new century and all that or so my kids tell me. My grandkids don't even bother. I like having a book.

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PostPosted: January 13, 2015, 11:09 am 
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Books are good. I've been using computers in all their various forms since the late 60's and I consider myself truly expert with them. Google is great in many respects, but my library of books gets used all the time. Sometimes you find information in books that you can't easily find, or find explained well, on the Internet.

A case in point would be the the Colin Campbell series of books on the sports car from Robert Bentley. The guy is such a smart, practical engineer, and he explains things in such a real-world sort of way, that when you finally get it, you say, "Of course, it's obvious now!" Those kinds of explanations are hard to find in electronic media. Videos can make things look too easy, I think. They can leave out the real meat of a concept in favor of presentation. Smart phones are too small to be really useful, at least with my eyes and ham fingers, and they're outrageously expensive to buy and operate. Books will definitely be around for a while longer. You have company.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: January 13, 2015, 12:51 pm 
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Some help with the bodywork.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=gal&user=John%20Bonnett&folder=GT6%20replica%20body%20in%20aluminium
Interesting what can be done by just chipping away at it.

Ron

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PostPosted: January 13, 2015, 1:27 pm 
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STranger 7 wrote:
Some help with the bodywork.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=gal&user=John%20Bonnett&folder=GT6%20replica%20body%20in%20aluminium
Interesting what can be done by just chipping away at it.

Ron


OMFG I have to learn how to do that. that is sofa-king kewl!

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PostPosted: January 13, 2015, 10:35 pm 
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Also see my response about John's metal shaping work here http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=17044

D


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PostPosted: January 14, 2015, 9:38 am 
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robbovius wrote:
OMFG I have to learn how to do that.


Me too. Thanks everyone for posting the links, now that they are in my build log I will be able to find them again later unlike most of the stuff I find....

I spent some more time with the poster board last night, lengthening the nose.
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The angle doesn't show how far forward the grill really is. Maybe this shot shows it better.

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I'm liking this nose better than the previous one.

OzGecko, I had been watching your build but I haven't seen it for a while. Anything new to show us?

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PostPosted: January 14, 2015, 5:58 pm 
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Keep working at it.

I think your front fenders are a little more 40's-ish. I'd put a reverse curve on the trailing half and drag it out a bit closer to the door hinge. Like this. A bit more 30's in my mind.


Attachments:
modified.JPG
modified.JPG [ 112.33 KiB | Viewed 2410 times ]

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PostPosted: January 15, 2015, 1:57 pm 
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rx7locost wrote:
I'd put a reverse curve on the trailing half and drag it out a bit closer to the door hinge.


I'm kinda stuck on the fender style below:

Attachment:
Front Fender I.jpg
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Attachment:
Front Fender II.jpg
Front Fender II.jpg [ 21.78 KiB | Viewed 2377 times ]


I bought the '36 Chevy fenders because I knew I could modify them to look close to the second picture which is Boyd's Whatthehaye.

john hennessy wrote:
placement of a wheel in a sweeping fender would also require this ratio to look asthetically pleasinging that if the overall length was 8 then the wheel would be 5 further forward and 3 would be at the front,


I took some measurements of the fender as it is now then did a ratio based on the total length being 8. The front number is 2.6 and the back number is 5.4. When I get to the point where I'm ready to start cutting and fiberglassing I'll look at adding a bit more to the front of the fender. I'm also planning on rolling the bottom edge under instead of being vertical all of the way down. Check the second fender picture behind the wheel.

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PostPosted: January 22, 2015, 9:48 am 
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It's been a week since my last report and there isn't much visible progress to show. I did spend a few hours both Saturday and Sunday working on the mockup. I took off the cowl support wood and everything behind it. I also got out my extra drive shaft and cut it down to help with placing parts. I will buy a new shortened drive shaft when the time comes.
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I cut new wood to represent frame parts, pushed them around then screwed them down in the new locations. I also got the plastic fuel tank down from the garage attic to help visualize. I put chunks of the Miata frame in place on top of the rear subframe. I kept these because they have the spring mounts. I'll cut these down and weld the spring mounts to the frame so I have the stock spring locations.
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I started mocking up the rocker panel, having a roll to the bottom rather than the square edge I had in the previous pictures.
Attachment:
IMG_0477.JPG
IMG_0477.JPG [ 491.27 KiB | Viewed 2319 times ]

Mostly I read the new books that came in the mail. I'm about halfway through Learning the English Wheel. That's the name of the book, I wish I was actually halfway through learning it. I was pleased to see that the disk that I raised into a bowl shape a few pages back was one of the first exercises, so I'm already ahead. This weekend I'll go up into the attic and scrounge more sheet metal and see what I can do next.

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PostPosted: January 23, 2015, 3:50 am 
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something to consider with door higes, the pivot points of the upper and lower door hinges must be in the same vertical plane, this gets difficult especially if you use suicide doors.

the best solution is to use one large hinge in the center of the "a" or "b" pillar, that way any curve in the body won't leave one hinge out in the cold so to speak.

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PostPosted: January 23, 2015, 1:37 pm 
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Hinges will be one of the many new things to deal with since my Locost has none. I am still hoping to use part of the Miata A pillar and part of the door frame to get the correct action but if they won't work my backup plan is to use Mini parts. I've worked with Mini doors before and the new door shouldn't be much heavier.
Attachment:
DSC00547.JPG
DSC00547.JPG [ 614.77 KiB | Viewed 2234 times ]


I'm getting tired of the mockup so its time for the trick I use when projects bog down, do a different part of the project even though it isn't really time for it yet. I was going to save the fiberglass work for later but I think I'll do some of it now.

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