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PostPosted: October 27, 2010, 6:45 pm 
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I've been contemplating a small, efficient commuter vehicle for a while. For a variety of overlapping reasons, I've decided on a 2F1R single seater, using the following components:

1976 Honda CJ360T, modified to accept the vw front end and passenger section.
Water cooled 25-30 HP NA Diesel, governed to just above the minimum BSFC at approximately 2400 rpm, 20 HP, and 50-60 NM torque.
VW IRS Bug rear hub/stub/drum brake/wheel.
Polaris P85 CVT drive system, tuned to engage at 1200 rpm, max travel at 2400 rpm
Synchronous pulley final drive from Mcmaster, for 1/2" pitch, 1" wide H series belt, 14/36 for 2.57:1 ratio.
VW Bug beam front end, balljoint and drum brakes for less drag.
Coker 135R15 tires, 23.25" OD for minimum rolling resistance.
Considering a FNR box for reverse instead of jackshaft, but the Comet Box can't take the torque.

I found a place near Crossville and Lynchburg TN that sells second hand diesels of this size for around $1200. I need watercooled for a decent defroster and heat.

I already have the vw bits. I'm purchasing the CVT and final drive next. An adapter that bolts to the diesel flywheel will have a concentric ring at the base. The driven pulley of the final drive will be modified to accept the concentric flange on the vw stub axle and drilled to accept the bolts normally used to attach the cv joint to the stub. A stock trailing arm will be butchered to make a swing arm with no adjustment at the pivot end (which pivots on the same axis as the cvt driven pulley and final drive pulley). Final drive belt tension will be adjusted at the wheel end. Chassis alignment will be thrust angle. There is plenty of room for the swing arm to have adequate crossection between the tire and pulley.

I would have preferred FWD but the gearing would not have been suitable given the room available.

I should have near maximum torque from idle to 70 mph. M wife's Honda helix has 50 nm at 6000 rpm. I can tell when the CVT runs out of travel around 45mph, because the HP, which peaks at 19 and 7500 rpm is bringing me up to the top speed but so much more slowly above the torque peak.

I'm guessing 1000 lbs wet.

I've considered transaxles for transverse engines, lawn mover transmissions and transaxles, vw transaxles, transmissions parallel to the crank with a belt drive in-between similar to harley/buell, hydrostatic, etc.
Any questions?

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Last edited by Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F on August 21, 2013, 6:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: October 27, 2010, 8:45 pm 
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Somewhere on the internet I saw where a guy took one of those cheap chinese single cylinder diesels and hooked it up to the automatic transaxle of a standard econobox car. He had to cut a hole in the hood for the engine to fit. He was getting great mileage but he needed a calendar to measure his 0-60 times. I'll try and find it.

Tom

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PostPosted: October 28, 2010, 7:58 am 
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I've heard of two; a metro:

http://utterpower.com/10hp_chevy.htm

and a festiva with a bit more power:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPuv_6bZKwY

The metro has a air cooled 10 hp chinese diesel (about $500).
The festy has a water cooled 13 hp /22 ft lb 2 cyl Yanmar (currently $750) and weighs around 1600 lbs.

My build will be governed to around 18 hp / 45 ft lbs pulling up to 1000 lbs in a much more aero package. However, if I find the top speed inadequate, I can adjust the govenor for more power. Our Helix can go 75+ mph on 19 hp (7500 rpm) and less torque (peaked at 6000 rpm with 51nm/38 ftlbs). What I'm doing is not that different from Riley's Centurion with a 17hp diesel and spitfire drivetrain, just more power less weight, a more efficient transmission for better accel, less weight and drag, etc.

http://www.rqriley.com/cent.html

Instead of piece meal on the transmission, I'm going to buy an atv with a bad engine. The fnr box on the polaris 300/400 2 stroke will work well and has a sprocket output. There is a gear reduction in the box, but I can change the final drive driven pulley to offset the reduction. It appears these boxes would work well for 750cc or less BECs and cost around $200 on Ebay.

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PostPosted: October 28, 2010, 10:50 am 
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I'll be watching this one, MiataV8! Can't wait to see what you do with this.

-dave

ps. I'm currently mulling about the notion of building a Nacho Libre chariot:
http://www.therpf.com/f9/nacho-libre-mo ... ead-15913/

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PostPosted: October 28, 2010, 11:14 am 
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Those carts are neat. It looks like a standard bike with the fork welded to the cart. It might get a little hairy in a sharper turn under power. The driver would need to pull on the outside bar and push on the inside one, as it would want to fold.

My local shop has a few 2 stroke atvs for parts. I'll check on those Saturday. The big ticket item is the engine; probably a Kubota D902 super mini ,1005, or possibly the NA version of Jack's motor, the 1105. This thing has to be practical enough to take me to work regularly (the only way I can justify the expense) and I don't want to come up short in the power department.

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PostPosted: October 28, 2010, 1:47 pm 
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I think I'd go for the D902 Super Mini -- it's about 50 lbs lighter than the Dxx5 engines and at your weight and payload, either the 3200 or 3600 rpm versions would provide sufficient power (I believe) for safe traffic merging etc.

I'm not sure what the differences are between the two rpm versions, but if you've a buddy in the Kubota biz, you could look at the parts manuals and see. I'd expect either the fuel cam or fuel cam gear is different (on diesels, fuel timing is equivalent to ignition timing on gas engines) and maybe the valve cam.

PS--Dave, no connection 'cept we're buds and had our shops in the same town (Creswell OR) but Mark Murphy sells this somewhat more sophisticated version of those chariots; you might give it a glance for inspiration at...
http://www.blueskydsn.com/amigo.html

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PostPosted: October 28, 2010, 1:55 pm 
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You might enjoy reading this:

http://hydraulicinnovations.com/forum/s ... .php?t=452

it's a hydrostatic drive diesel trike. He hasn't finished it, and i'm not sure that everything is ideal, but it's interesting nonetheless, particularly since he uses a frame somewhat like a locost.

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PostPosted: October 28, 2010, 2:02 pm 
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I spotted an enclosed commuter trike in a parking lot this morning as I was driving by. Didn't have an opportunity to study it but it was streamlined, looked mass-produced and very new. Any idea what it might have been?

Sounds like a great project, MiataV8!

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PostPosted: October 28, 2010, 8:07 pm 
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Jack,
I noticed the higher reving version hp and torque are less than the reving lower version. I probably use whichever I can get the best deal on.

Knicky,
thanks for the link. I don't recall seeing that one but I have seen the Roo. I'm also using gps for speed and a backup camera with small convex spot mirrors inside instead of external mirrors.

Pete,

Corbin sold a few Sparrows then went bankrupt. There was a subsidy for buying electric cars, not trikes. The Sparrow is electric with 13 car batteries. Corbin also was working on the Merlin with an engine of his own design but it never was offered to the public. A new guy is selling the same basic car with changes to the body.


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PostPosted: October 28, 2010, 9:10 pm 
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I got a chance to drive a Sparrow around town for an hour or so. Never in my life did I feel so... um, gay. Don't know where that feeling came from, but I was really happy they hadn't instead named it a different bird name, "Swallow..."

Seriously, it was okay for small town commuting. The one I drove though felt like the rear wheel bearing was loose or something, as driving along at speed, there was a slightly unnerving feeling of the back end of the car steering.

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PostPosted: October 29, 2010, 8:55 am 
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From the shape, I think the car I saw was a Sparrow. It was painted silver and looked sort of high end, but I saw only the back. The picture of the front is sort of disturbing. If it were pink it would have a distinct genital look. :)

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PostPosted: October 29, 2010, 6:44 pm 
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The Sparrow is definitely city. The wheel base, cg, and range are more about parking than high speed stability. On the tail waging, maybe the swing arm pivots are too close together for the bushing durometer.

Tiny vehicles with a shape not immediately recognizable need high vis and loud horns.

My local bike shop will sell me a Polaris 350 trailboss with a busted crank case for $220. It's nice to get the whole thing and use as much as possible without nickle and dime piece-meal parts. The manager is restoring a fire Aero trike. I left my card and asked to see it and take a few pictures. I just found out the Fire Aero also uses the vw beam. Not much to the frame. Mine should be lighter with a shorter wheelbase and single seat.


Attachments:
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PostPosted: October 30, 2010, 4:29 pm 
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I picked up my donor atv today. It is amazing now many people will drop off an atv for service then never pay. Here is a photo of about half the atvs stored at this small town shop. I decided on a 1996 Polaris 400 Sport 2wd. I think they make around 60+ hp and 40+ ft lbs and top out around 67 mph per the web. It is a liquid cooled two stroke. The bill was around $400 but they had already sold a few parts from it. I bought it for $200. I asked for and received a bill of sale for when it comes time to title it as a road vehicle.

I noticed some gouges on the inside of the cvt cover. Notice the missing bolt on the drive clutch. I'm hoping it was not torqued and fell out versus stripped. Otherwise it looks good. I didn't measure the belt to check wear yet.

The dip stick for the fnr box has a magnet on the end. There are some fillings which is normal for these. I'll tear it down anyway to check. Shifting back and forth seems a bit higher effort than it should be. I'll reuse the integral switch to indicate the box is in reverse.

I'll reuse the cylindrical tool box also.

The radiator and electric fan are okay, but I'm not sure I want to resue them. I'll reuse the two stroke oil tank, low oil warning light, and switch for alternative fuel. The 3.7 gallon fuel tank will be for diesel.

The rear brake will be replaced with the driven pulley, which is too large to replace the sprocket. A pillow block will support the shaft on the inside of the bracket. The splined hub of the rotor will be modified to accept the pulley.


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PostPosted: October 30, 2010, 4:31 pm 
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Pics:
How I received it
The rear brake side.
Exploded views for swing arm, fnr, and fnr output.

I need pullers to remove the drive clutch and driven pulley. Normally the driven slides off the splined shaft easily but not this one. The thread for the drive should be 3/4"-16 and the driven, 1"-14. Will verify once I find bolts that large. I may have to order from Mcmaster.

On a side note,
I also picked up a Sony 51" rear projection tv yesterday for $50 with a convergence problem; it won't adjust auto or manual. The previous owner had the stk392-560 chips replaced and it worked for a few months. I took it apart and found inadequate dielectric behind one. Instead of replacing with the cheap chips (currently $6 each), I ordered one of those repair kits for $75 that should have the Sanyo $30 / each chips, along with the correct tolerance resistors and pico fuses just in case I need them later.


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FNR OUTPUT.jpg
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FNR.jpg
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PostPosted: October 31, 2010, 7:32 am 
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More pics:

Rough initial rendering of my goal. Top tubes supported by verticals act as a "skid plate" to support an suv without crushing the car and occupant. Bodywork and safety glass will lay on top but won't follow frame at the rear, which will be kamm backed. If your going to get hit, I'd rather have them slide over the top versus launching me like a pool ball or loosing my head. Large extinguisher and hatchet/hammer/belt cutter are part of the plan also. The pink frame work is removable. Light blue radiator up front, red suspension. The green frame around the side window is part of the roof panel and hinged at the roof, so one window plus the roof lift up to allow entry/exit. Roof is around waist to hip height for a six foot person.

Typical puller set for secondary pulleys. I think I need the big one in back.

FNR shifter with sensor for neutral and reverse indicators, which are available separately for around $12 each. The knob on mine is busted.

Clutch system pics.


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My Trike.JPG
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File comment: SCP-1 Secondary Tool Set, $35
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clutch cover.jpg
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Last edited by Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F on October 31, 2010, 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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