LocostUSA.com

OK, thanks Tresa.

I’m only aware of Harley using a belt primary on a couple models in the 80s.

If you desire a chain final drive, Custom machining can be very expensive, and you’ll need some to make the input work with your ev motor or jackshaft, even with a belt drive primary conversion (also not cheap). The output is simply bolting on the correct sprocket and having the necessary hardware. Replacement drive sprockets for bikes converted to chain are available fairly cheap, since that would be a wear item.

Here is a general ratio spread for a 5 speed: 3.21/2.21/1.57/1.23/1:1

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

Thanks for the input and gear ratios (Those will work very nicely for the EV motor!)

I'm not too concerned about the machining (I design/develop prototypes (25+ years),for a living and have a pretty complete shop including mills and lathes. (Although I don't see myself machining splined shafts for this project!)

The EV motor has a keyed shaft and there are many fittings with flanges available that are perfect for accepting MC sprockets that fit (This EV motor is very popular for use with motorcycle EV conversions). I plan on getting one of these fittings/flanges and (if needed), machining it to accept bolt on chain MC sprockets that would normally fit the MC ICE output shaft. Same thing for the jack-shaft. (I can also weld flanges (after machining them, onto the jack shaft), especially when adapting the dog clutch at the other end of the jack shaft.

After exploring and experimenting with the "wet" clutch I just bought, I see that I can remove the existing steel chain drive from the back of the aluminum clutch basket and machine the old chain ring/plate to accept new MC sprockets that would most likely be the same wider bolt pattern as used on the rear wheel sprockets. That way, I can switch and experiment with different gear ratios between the EV motor and the jack-shaft (Old design... With the HD transmission: I'd be adapting the back of the clutch (input/primary), to accept the larger MC sprocket).

Since I've known nothing about HD transmissions or clutches and never had one in front of me to examine/explore/plan what machining needs to be done, I had to do some more research on the internet to find out just how HD had their output shaft rotate right behind the clutch/input shaft. I discovered (in one photo), that the output "shaft" on the HD transmission (Chain sprocket to rear drive wheel - in my case: transmission to jack shaft), was actually a "tube" that rotated around the input (clutch),shaft (see photo).

What I need to "discover" now, is how the belt pulley or chain sprocket for the "primary drive" at the transmission is attached to the clutch basket. I'm hoping it's pretty much the same as the clutch I have here on my work table. I'm hoping to remove the original belt pulley or chain sprocket and machine it to accept a larger MC sprocket.

"Armed with this information and better understanding", I'm hoping to go visit the HD dealership/shop today and see if they have a broken clutch in back that they'll give me or that I can buy for super cheap to bring home and work on it, or at least see one up close, so I can experiment with and see if my plan will work. (I'll put together a drawing to help them understand how I plan to use a HD transmission along with some questions for them before I visit.)

I'm getting really excited about the prospects of incorporating a HD transmission/drive system to solve this challenge (probably TOO excited!), because I just found a local guy on Craigslist who is selling a TON of Harley parts (22 photos on his ad!!!). One of the photos is of four transmissions! I have no idea how much he wants for them or what kind they are, but I'm afraid that if he's selling them cheap, I'll buy one and make a "mistake"... I really don't need it "right now", I just need to know that I can make it work. (I still have so much more work to do to get the rest of this vehicle build moving along.)

I'll see what I can learn at the Harley dealership today... If I'm too late for the Craigslist ad, then it just "wasn't meant to be" and I can get my "tail to stop wagging" and wait... But, if what I learn at the dealership tells me my idea will work and the guy is selling these cheap, then...

OK... Potatoes were harvested yesterday (an incredible bumper crop!), and I completed a new larger raised grow bed, but now one of our aquaponics tanks is leaking... It looks like it just may be one of the overflow valves Tasks never end around here! LOL!

Thanks again!

Richard

_________________
"If I can draw it, I can build it!" ...Right??? ROFLOL!!!

"To design a flying machine is nothing... To build it, little...
To make it fly, is everything!"

-Igor Sikorsky

Just finished laying out and drawing how the HD transmission fits into this drive system:

Starting at the jack-shaft:
The purple sprocket feeding the rear drive wheel is permanently attached to the shaft.
The purple sprocket being fed by the HD transmission is permanently attached.
The purple sprocket being fed by the motorcycle ICE is on bearings, free to spin.

The green Dog Tooth clutch is tied into the jack shaft, but slides over to engage the motorcycle chain sprocket when driving under ICE power. (The HD transmission would be placed in neutral). When driving under EV mode, the Dog Tooth clutch is disengaged so that power from the EV motor is not drained (drag), by spinning the motorcycle sprocket, ICE chain or the output shaft from the ICE.

From the EV motor:
The EV motor has a small sprocket that feeds power to the back of the HD dry clutch. That power is fed into the transmission and the 5 speeds are used to control the rpm and Amp draw at the EV motor. Output from the HD transmission is then fed to the jack shaft that then drives the rear drive wheel.

OK... I re-read this several times to make sure everything works. If I can modify the HD dry clutch to accept a chain sprocket to tie in with the EV motor, I'm set!

God! I LOVE "Theoretical Engineering"... Because in the "theoretical world", EVERYTHING WORKS! LOL!

Still much to do learn and figure out to make this become a real world solution, but I'm learning to take this one step at a time.

Now, I'll print out all my questions for the HD dealership and bring this drawing with me so they can better understand what I'm trying to do with their dry clutch and transmission.

I'll report back when I find something out.

Richard

_________________
"If I can draw it, I can build it!" ...Right??? ROFLOL!!!

"To design a flying machine is nothing... To build it, little...
To make it fly, is everything!"

-Igor Sikorsky

How about small tractor clutches?

Also, some harleys had dry clutches in the 80s I believe. Your guy on craigs probably knows way more about than I do, considering his stockpile of parts.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

Had a GREAT meeting with the service manager at the Harley dealership!!!

("This" [u]WILL[u] work!)

The manager spent a lot of time with me and totally understood my application for the HD transmission too! (He was genuinely excited about what I was creating.)

He brought me in back to take a look at some clutches (He looked in his "trash bin" thinking he had a clutch in there he could give me, but someone before me took it... Oh well. I did get all the info I needed though!

He ran me through the different year differences (focusing on the input and output shafts, availability, use of a dry clutch and adapting them to chain sprockets).

He suggested that I search for a 5 speed transmission from a 1990 - 1999 softtail. They used a belt for both primary and final output drive and there were a lot of them made... Also, used ones should be available as many owners switched to the 6-speed transmission. He was right! I found a LOT of them on E bay and a few were as cheap as $250... Up to $500 for reconditioned and "almost new".

HD makes a conversion for the output for belt to sprocket.

To convert the clutch belt input, he totally agreed with me that I could easily remove the back steel belt pulley and starter gear (I'd shed off a lot of unneeded weight!) by "popping off the rivets" to remove it leaving the clutch basket. He felt the back of the clutch basket was way thick and that I might get away with just drilling and threading it to attach a chain ring to accept a MC chain application between my EV motor drive and the clutch. (I don't remember if the clutch basket or the steel pulley had the splines for the input shaft. (I think it's the steel pulley plate, which is fine, I can turn the plate on my lathe so that it becomes a smaller diameter "disc" to be machined to be the receiver for my MC chain ring.)

He also suggested that I use the same chain as the Kawasaki drive as the Harley chain is HUGE and I don't need the added strength or weight and... he felt that using the Kawasaki chain would make for a smoother running drive.

I went back on line to confirm the actual transmission gear ratios as most of the discussions on the different forums were about "final" ratios...

MiataV8: You had it right! The ratios you gave me were for the transmission and not final! (I wasn't sure which ratios you posted.)

I continued researching and found two great ratio calculators WITH a drop down menu that included '95 to '99 5 speed soft tails! This will help tremendously as I can use their "primary" ratios to calculate EV rpm to transmission input, AND then calculate output to rear wheel to get my final ratio to compare EV motor rpm and efficiency at different mph!

New replacement pads,steel plates and springs were $200 (He said I could get them cheaper on line, but I'd like to support his local business as I felt his help was "priceless"!

I also asked him about the weight of the transmission... He said 80lbs - 100lbs! (I just can't imagine that after looking at the transmissions on the bikes on display.) Since I didn't need the starter plate, he said I could machine the case to remove unneeded flanges etc which would drop the weight.

And... the belt drives on the '90 - '99 soft tails used dry clutches!

I couldn't ask for more great news than this!!!

The challenge of coupling my EV motor and the ICE to this "drive system" has been solved!

(Incredible sense of relief and reduction of stress here!)

I'm taking the "day off" from all of this and going to spend some "comfort time" with Tresa.

Thank you so much for all your help! (Especially YOU, Miatav8!!!)

signing off for a while... After I get my solar heaters built and installed, I'll re-install my wood mock up parts on my shop table and get back to working on the "fun stuff"!

Best,
Richard

_________________
"If I can draw it, I can build it!" ...Right??? ROFLOL!!!

"To design a flying machine is nothing... To build it, little...
To make it fly, is everything!"

-Igor Sikorsky

Any updates on any progress?

_________________
30 years old, not sure what I want to be when I grow up…

Hi Briggs,

it's been a LONG time since I've been here!

The project is still on my planning board but had to take a back seat.

I had been planning to build a solar heater for our home (Our last power bill was $750!!!) Turned out our heat pump system broke and it had been operating on filament heating alone! Eeek!

As always (like here), I did TONS of research, starting with the popular soda can air heaters. I designed a super high performance aluminum screen heater and installed it.

We're now getting 90 to 110 degree heated air being blown into our home at 90 Cubic Feet per Minute for only 21 watts!

The problem was, that this only happened when the sun was out! Heavy cloud cover, rain, snow and the darkness of night yielded nothing.

So, back to the drawing board!

I designed a rocket stove fireplace insert mass heater! We are now heating our home 24/7 to 70-73 degrees burning a cubic foot of wood!

Took a lot of time, so now I'm trying to catch up on income generating work.

My vehicle project will never stop... I've just learned what it means (as others have shared), that "life gets in the way"! LOL!

Attaching a few photos;

Thanks for reaching out!

Best,
Richard

_________________
"If I can draw it, I can build it!" ...Right??? ROFLOL!!!

"To design a flying machine is nothing... To build it, little...
To make it fly, is everything!"

-Igor Sikorsky

Richard,

I just read threw your log ........or tried to read most of it.
As a 47 Yr old male, who is still working on his first Cyclecar project............ http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 18&t=12997
I understand that life can get in the way. I spent 2 yrs. building the car to this point, moved to a new home 3 yrs. ago and the project has sat in storage since......... due to the lack of a proper working space.

So, with that said my advice to you, is to do as this gentleman did and build something similar to his Velorex Cyclecar replica.............. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np0oAJSZLdw
It's a simple chassis that he designed around the donor motorcycle and it can be covered in a multitude of materials and designs.

If I were to do it over again I would:

1) Buy a RUNNING motorcycle with a TITLE (this way you're using 90% of the bike and just title it as such......... No going to the DMV and dealing with that bureaucratic cluster [Fornicate]
2) Hire a shop to bend and TIG weld the (round tubing) that way you know its got good welds and you're not messing with welding or grinding ( damn mess and noise )
3) Use the VW front beams........ As figuring out the geometry of a front suspension is a pain in the ass...... There's a reason the VW beams are still produced and used on many projects.
4) End your 47 yr. old dream and drive it ......... rather than watch your neighbor drive off on his Harley laughing while you stare at your project trying to figure out your suspension ( in my case )
Who knows you might hate driving a Reverse Trike and want to sell it or Love it and want to build your ideal Trike idea. with electric assist, etc..........

But at least you did it and know the trials and tribulations. Been there, doing it now..... wishing I had K.I.S.S

Just my 2 cents

_________________
Ahh; gitty up!