LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently September 23, 2018, 2:45 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 228 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: May 7, 2011, 12:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: January 31, 2008, 5:34 pm
Posts: 722
Location: SW Wes Consin
A question and a comment:
What sort of welder are you using?
If you are building a buck to pull a mold from you might want to make the mold from epoxy instead of polyester resin as regardless of how well sealed the styrofoam is it has a tendency to soften and shrink over time (like 8 hours). I know because I have tried nearly everything to seal the stuff without much luck. Actually, I was rooting for your doing this project in alloy and avoiding all those messy electrostatic polystyrene bits. Not enough metal shaping stuff done on this site. I seem to recall you had plans to build an e wheel. Did that work out?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: May 13, 2011, 11:22 am 
Offline

Joined: December 29, 2007, 10:41 pm
Posts: 863
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vroom,
For the chassis i used a small "pea shooter" of a welder, 110V etc. Its fine for anything up to 1/8", but beyond that i took my bits to a friend to weld. But for the ally work i was going to gas weld the lot, unfortunately those plans are now on hold. Another friend of mine had a shop that was full of metal working tools (english wheel, shrinker/stretcher, brake, shear etc), but he's now closing the shop so i'll now have to start collecting my own tools and build the english wheel. I still have the anvils, and an idea on how to build it, but no steel at the moment.

There is an upside to making the bits in 'glass though, i'll have a solid buck to shape the panels to.

Also, the plan with the 'glass is not to make a mold, just lay-up on the foam buck, remove the buck, then sand and fill. If it doesnt turn out, then i'll shelve the 'glass project and get back to metalwork.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: September 28, 2011, 3:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: December 29, 2007, 10:41 pm
Posts: 863
Location: Vancouver, BC
So, i've decided to sell the Eleven and get back to the project that i started last winter. I barely drove the Eleven this year, and i just dont have as much fun in it, as i did driving the Seven, so its time for it to leave the stable. Anyways, back to the on again, off again project. Since leaving my old job (parts department at a British car shop) i've been collecting bits and pieces. I think i've got just about enough to put my "special" into a rolling state, and about the only bits i dont currently have are a clutch, a set of tires and a modified drive shaft. Just about everything else has been aquired. If only i could find some time...

I've been changing bits and pieces on the design and i think i'm now happy to get back to fabricating the rest of the chassis. My new job has provided me with access to a 3d version of Autocad which has helped out a ton. I think all the time spend modelling in 3d will greatly speed up the build of at least the rolling chassis. Here's the latest rendering of the chassis:

Image

Currently though, i dont know if i will continue with a body shape similar to the Ginetta G4, i'm now leaning towards a Cobra Daytona Coupe/Ferrari GTO/Alfa TZ2 shape. I picked up a Spitfire windscreen which will help solidify the body design, but all that will have to wait till next spring.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: September 28, 2011, 8:45 pm 
Offline
Always Moore!
User avatar

Joined: November 9, 2007, 3:40 pm
Posts: 3937
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
It seems like not many cars are as much fun as the 7. ;) I hate to hear that you are parting with another amazing build but lucky for someone with some spare change they since will be getting a great car.

You can definitely see the G4 in that chassis. Have you found a kit maker that will sell you any of those bodies you mentioned or will you be making it from scratch?

_________________
-Andrew
Build Log
Youtube


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: September 28, 2011, 9:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: December 29, 2007, 10:41 pm
Posts: 863
Location: Vancouver, BC
Quote:
It seems like not many cars are as much fun as the 7.


You got that right, the Seven had so much more power, plus it used inexpensive parts. The Eleven on the other hand, not so much. I'm always scared that the motor might go pop, or i'll break a half shaft etc. The halfshaft issue i could live with, but having to find another Climax and build it is outside of my "fun" budget.

As for the body on the "special", i'm planning on doing the carved polyurethane foam and fibreglass thing. The biggest challenge, i'm sure, will be making the doors and getting them to work properly. But, thats all hopefully going to start in the spring, so i have all winter to figure it out. Just need to hone my Solidworks skills and make a 3d model of the body. Failing that, i guess i could always build a 1/4 scale body, i wonder if SWMBO would allow that in the apartment.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: September 30, 2011, 4:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 30, 2011, 4:11 pm
Posts: 1
Where did you find the Lotus 11 chassis dimensions, tube gauge, diameter, bend radius ect ?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: October 3, 2011, 1:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: December 29, 2007, 10:41 pm
Posts: 863
Location: Vancouver, BC
Quote:
Where did you find the Lotus 11 chassis dimensions, tube gauge, diameter, bend radius ect ?


Well, a friend of mine worked for Lotus in 1958, at that time they were building a new drawing office, and old Chunky said that the drawings for the older models werent needed, so they were up for grabs. My friend grabbed all he could on the Elevens, but unfortunately the chassis drawing was lent to one of his friends and has since dissapeared. But, i did pick up a copy of Dennis Ortenburgers book on the Eleven (they go for about $250 a copy), which has the Series 1 chassis drawing in it. I also borrowed a friends copy of Russ Hoenigs Series 2 addendum and made up my own chassis drawings based on half Series 1 and half Series 2 dimensions. Since then, i have made up an almost correct Series 2 drawing.

As for bend radius', the drawings all say bend to correct profile for the very few curved tubes. The only curved tubes with dimensions just give the difference in height.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: October 4, 2011, 4:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: January 31, 2008, 5:34 pm
Posts: 722
Location: SW Wes Consin
CS3. Always interested in your projects. This one seems somewhat similar to my Sprite into Locost project which has been on hold for the last four months while I add a second floor bath and bedroom to my (?) house. :cry: So I'm done with that and thinking about fun stuff. Your chassis pic has raised some questions: 1. Why do so many locost designs build out the transmission tunnel with tubes? Both the 7 and 11 and the Lola series one simply put in a hump of aluminum. It seems to me this provides a fair amount of space in a tight area. And I am not to convinced about the added torsional ridgidity. 2. That giant rectangular area where the pilot goes in would seem the biggest contributor to chassis flex. Yet many designs don't triangulate the rocker panel area. 3. What sort of suspension bits are you planning?
Please don't take this as a critique just interested in your thinking.
T


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: October 4, 2011, 5:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: December 29, 2007, 10:41 pm
Posts: 863
Location: Vancouver, BC
Vroom,
I will try an answer your questions...

#1) having not done an FEA on this chassis i cant comment on how much strength the tunnel gives. I'm currently working my way through Solidworks and i'm hoping i'll have some sort of idea on how to use its basic FEA function to see just how stiff my contraption is. But, i have seen various Eleven chassis' that have had some extra tubes placed in the tunnel area. These tubes, though, looked like they were put in place to help support the back end of the gearbox. If you study the Elevens and Lotus 7s (not later Caterhams), they had a rivetted in gearbox mount bracket bearing solely on the tunnel. Most have now had these areas reinforced or have had tubes added to support the back end of the 'box.

#2) I agree. When i was in the early stages of drawing my "special", i had thought about having no doors, and a "terry hoop" for the dash area (think Lotus 18,19,23 etc). This would have made the chassis stiffer, but would greatly hinder ingress and egress, as i'm wanting to build a coupe/GT car. I'm considering adding a roll cage once the body is finalized, but that wont be for a while yet. I'm also planning on making the "rocker panels" in aluminum though i dont think they will add much to chassis strength.

#3) Front end is a modified Spitfire upright, along the lines of what Graham has done for his Formula car (but i'm using 5/8" spherical joints instead of 1/2"). I've had the threaded portion of the upright turned to 5/8" diameter with a 5/8" UNF thread cut. Plus I've drilled out the taper for the upper ball joint to 5/8" to allow the use of a 5/8" rod end. Rear end is modelled after the Ginetta G4 live axle cars, having two upper trailing links and a lower triangulated link that picks up just to the side of the differential. Its very similar to what a Lotus 7 S2/3 has, but the "A" frame is reduced to half the chassis width. I'm tempted to add lower trailing links, but i want to see how it will work as is. All four corners will use coil overs, just need to figure out spring rates, but that can wait till the car is closer to completion ( i dont know how heavy this thing will be yet).


As for your car being on hold, I'm certain that the same will happen with this build inside the next couple months. The vacation's planned for next year are going to break the bank, Mexico in August, then the Goodwood Revival in September and hopefully a trip to the Nurburgring right after Goodwood. So, my "fun/car" money will be dissappearing very shortly.

-Rod


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: October 5, 2011, 4:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: January 31, 2008, 5:34 pm
Posts: 722
Location: SW Wes Consin
Rod
Goodwood AND the Nurburgring. It would be one heck of a project to make me miss that trip.
Your comments about FEA led me to look back on an earlier project. The plan was to build a porsche 550 spyder with updated suspension and chassis. A guy, since married (harried?), who had just graduated from engineering school, ran some analysis for me. The best stiffness yo weight was one of the simplest designs. It's big secret was an x frame under the front two bays (rear engine). The other big discovery was that connecting the two triangle apexes at the back was huge.
Actually my BEA demonstrated both situations it just provided no relative numbers. I guess with Sprite into locost I'll go there first.
T


Attachments:
DSCN0003.JPG
DSCN0003.JPG [ 405.75 KiB | Viewed 4406 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: November 28, 2011, 2:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: December 29, 2007, 10:41 pm
Posts: 863
Location: Vancouver, BC
Its been a while, so i thought I'd post a couple pics of what I've been up to. I dragged out the chassis I started a year ago and started on getting it rolling. I've added some triangulation in various parts and constructed a jig for the front suspension pick up points. This past Sunday i started on the suspension brackets, i still have to add some crush tubes through some of the chassis members, plus make up a bracket so that the rear upper mount is in double shear. Anyways here are some pics:

Image

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: December 19, 2011, 10:37 am 
Offline

Joined: December 19, 2011, 10:24 am
Posts: 24
Location: Charlotte, NC
I've been lurking on this site and the formula 750 UK site for over a year. Finally joined because I am in awe of the creativity and quality of builds shown here. True grassroots car building like it should be.
CS3 building a Ginetta/Cobra Daytona Coupe/Ferrari GTO/Alfa TZ2 finally pushed me over the edge. All of those are beautiful cars. The frame pictured from Ginetta Heritage, are those for sale to the general public or do you have to go thru a dealer?
Looks like a fairly straight forward frame but was curious about the cost of buying vs building my own.

Thanks,
Don


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: February 20, 2012, 6:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: February 20, 2012, 6:20 pm
Posts: 10
I just spent a glorious hour working my way through your building log....THANK YOU for the experience! I am writing from New Zealand, but I am orginally from Vancouver Island. I wish I was around when you were building the 11.

Like countless others, I have always wanted to build an eleven, but the lack of drawings for the chassis, and the lack of body molds has put this in the "too-hard basket" for years. Your aluminium panel work looks daunting, but acheivable with the right tools...but I can't imagine how I would even start building the f-glass body for an eleven. I have never seen a set for sale.

Can you comment on the following:

1. Would you offer for sale a copy of whatever drawings you have for the chassis? Would this include the suspension components etc?
2. Do you know of anyone who still makes the f-glass body?
3. Was the eleven enjoyable to drive? Would a more modern engine have made it a better drive?
4. With the Ginetta project, how did you intend on building the body? Was it just a case of carving a mold from pictures of the car? I suppose this is one reason the 7 is so popular (no forming).

In any case, I'm not convinced yet that I couldn't build one like you have...but the lack of a body is a real problem at the moment.

Cheers,

John


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: March 7, 2012, 9:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: February 20, 2012, 6:20 pm
Posts: 10
Thanks for the message, I can't reply back to you through the forum (I am too new on the forum). In any case, yes, yes and yes...discretion and patience are my middle names :)

I have researching metal forming over a wooden buck, which at first glance looks extremely-difficult, but which I'm sure will prove to be impossible.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: CS3's projects
PostPosted: March 9, 2012, 2:35 am 
Offline

Joined: December 29, 2007, 10:41 pm
Posts: 863
Location: Vancouver, BC
Van Isle Moose, if you want, contact me at rod underscore mac at hotmail dot com.

As for the shaping metal, i'm the apprentices apprentice (and at everything else too), so dont take anything i say as gospel. One small thing i learned from reading the story of Honda in F1 is, Sochrio Honda once said 99% of all learing is from trial and error. And i have taken that to heart, in the scientific method, try everything once, and figure out either why it worked or why it didnt. Back to basic metal work, a stump is the best thing for us mortals.


Last edited by cs3tcr on March 11, 2012, 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 228 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
POWERED_BY