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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: December 2, 2008, 9:10 am 
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Thanks for the inputs. I like it and make no apologies for it, but I would like to explain how it got here. The design is driven by the parts used. This isn't a copy of anything or meant to fit in any category other than nontraditional locost. I don't have the dims with me, but this has a 60" track and a 95" wheelbase. The engine is roughly a 30x30x30" cube plus ground clearance. The passenger compartment is 40x21. The roof line is about 45". I did not want a long narrow car. Deep side flares look good, but they are not aero.

The tailights are from the GTM/Lambo and they need to be at a certain angle, although I did consider the focus rear pillar mount lights.

If I raised the engine, I could get my feet under the head more but I didn't want to do that.

The spare on the back is better than taking up interior space and is Kamm Back inspired if not effective. There have been plenty of sportscars that have exterior or rear mounted spares. In the late 80s through the mid 90s, I recall atleast one seven kit maker that hung the spare off of the back. The Morgan 3 wheeler typically had the spare in the same position and orientation unless equipped with the boat tail. The Morgan 4 wheeler also had the spare resting on the back.

The windshield needs to be wide but narrower vertically and the Dodge Viper seems perfect. I'm checking the price of the Viper windshield today, but I really don't want glass that is relatively cheap now but will be rare later.

The final result will not be an exact replica of the model. The model just gives a mental picture when I'm sanding the foam on the big one.

My layout is very similar to late 60s TVRs, which was my goal.
http://www.tvrna.com/


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PostPosted: December 2, 2008, 11:53 am 
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My tbird glass is cracked. I can get a replacement for about $200. A 1999 Dodge Viper windshield costs about $400. I'm going to look for a viper and a focus model this afternoon. I may be able to squeeze the pax in a little tighter, which would allow a narrower windshield top, which would allow a narrower base.

Weissmann vs TVR clip:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/videos/ind ... ars&id=104


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PostPosted: December 6, 2008, 11:20 am 
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Blackbird wrote:
it looks either way too wide above the belt line or way too narrow under it.

Moti


I didn't understand your statement at first but now I do. The problem is I wasn't measuring for accurate scale, just using the model bits and adding clay. I'm starting over again, this time with my dial caliper and a calculator. Garbage in, garbage out.

Definately not going with the viper glass. The Viper glass is deeply curved in the overhead view. It basically sits on top of the body. If one were to place a viper windscreen on a table, it would sit at the correct angle (for a viper) unsupported. To change the angle at all would look odd.

It seems the windscreen for any commonly available vehicle that has had a reasonably long production run and isn't especially old can be had for about $200. This includes corvettes. I bought a C5 racing model but it was a mistake, since the glass on the racing version does not appear to be the same as the production version, with a large cutout for engine clearance. I didn't find any focus models.


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PostPosted: December 13, 2008, 7:01 pm 
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Here is a miata windshield (shown flat), 90" wheelbase, no spare. This is the most accurate one yet. Instead of sticking clay all over the model, I cut a piece of 2x4, then sanded it on a grinder so that the wheels would be at the correct track and wheelbase when hot glued on. It was a lot easier to know where everything was at when it isn't covered in clay. This has 45"x18" driver and passenger compartments, side pipes, and flat side and rear glass. Looks like those micromachine toys. The miata glass works much better than the others. Am I the only one who likes this?

Complete 1995 TBird front and rear subframes.
4.6l SOHC
T45 5 speed
8.8 diff
tbird radiator
2005 mustang wheels shown


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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: December 13, 2008, 10:28 pm 
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The TVR has longer length/width proportions. You're dimensions are blocky (similar to mine, BTW) and your shape doesn't really work with that proportion. I liked the spare tire thing. The new design has huge blind spots. Also, the slope in the back looks like it's aero bad-too steep for good air, but not steep enough to break the air off clean (kamm). I dunno, maybe slightly longer over hangs, softer edges on the roof? Bring the roof all the way to the back, sloping it down at 10* and narrowing it at 10*? It would help with the aero, and might make the car look longer/narrower.

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PostPosted: December 14, 2008, 5:28 pm 
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I looked for a pic of your design but couldn't find it.

I had not put much thought into having blind spots but having several miatas myself, I get it.

I haven't checked any angles nor am a shooting for aero. If I were, there would be a lot of overhang front and rear. Mostly I just put everything in position and "connected the dots", similar to the chassis.

What do you think of something similar to this?


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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: December 14, 2008, 5:56 pm 
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I don't have any place to post. Since I have an unheated garage in Ohio, I may work on that this winter.

Yeah. That will make it look longer. What about one of those CRX type lower back windows. You could make it Lexan for weight, and call it a "translucent body panel".

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PostPosted: December 14, 2008, 6:34 pm 
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I'm glad I changed it, because it really brought out the rear wheel flares. It reminds me of one of those BMW Z3 coupes. I thought about the CRX panel would I made this, but I was trying to get the tailights as high as possible and out of the attached airflow. The fuel filler is between the tailights above the tag position. It won't be so boxy with the miata glass installed.

You can post a pic of your design here if you want or shrink it percentage wise with a digital camera photo editor and make it your avatar.

Getting better:


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_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: December 15, 2008, 2:54 am 
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Location: snow city - it's wet!
I think what you're doing is very interesting (good way) but one part does keep tweaking me a bit. The bottom half of the car seems to be all modernistic curves with a bit of retro, but the top half seems to be stuck in mid-eighties straight edge land. Just my opinion but I think I would look for ways to blend the top & bottom together more.

I really like the overall concept, it made me think of the Gillet Vertigo, although a more practical interpretation. I really think it would be great to fit an interpretation of that design to a locost chassis.

Image


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PostPosted: December 15, 2008, 6:37 pm 
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The challenge with using flat glass is trying to ensure it doesn't end up looking like a homemade tank.

I should try to duplicate the miata windscreen curves. The dims shown are overall. I could use a bubble back window from an old c3 vette, but that would run atleast $500 just for the window. I've done a lot more sculpting around the rear quarters since the last pic. IMHO, it actually is starting to take a shape similar to the back of an Ultima GTR.
http://www.gtspirit.com/2007/05/06/ulti ... bhp-green/

I'll post a new pic of it once it is refined a bit more. Thats the great thing about clay. If I were sanding foam on the actual car, I don't expect I would put much effort in to trying different styles before taking the position that "I can't even see it when I'm driving so who cares?"

I don't think I've seen the vertigo before. It looks to be a middy since the hood/bonnet is so low.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: December 19, 2008, 4:56 am 
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Location: snow city - it's wet!
Here's the wikipedia entry for Gillet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillet

The backstory seems to be that the car is essentially a highly updated version of the original Lotus 7 ideal using a carbon monoque chassis. If I recall correctly the FIA race car was based around a very high revving v6 with a 6 speed; although I can't remember where the parts where sourced from.

Here's the English site for the builder: http://www.gilletvertigo.com/vertigo_EN.html

It's amazing how often the Lotus 7 / clubman / locost chassis design keeps being successfully revisited.


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PostPosted: December 19, 2008, 9:10 am 
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I see a lot of similarities in overall shape and layout between my car and the vertigo. I must have seen that before.

I travelled a lot this week so I haven't had much time with the playdough. The vertical width of the side glass is wider than necessary too. It should clean up nicely.


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_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: December 20, 2008, 8:18 am 
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Still tinkering.
I narrowed the side glass.
The door extends to the "A" pillar at the windshield.
I don't really care for the narrow wedge rear quarter windows, which would break easily if made of glass. I can cut and add those later if necessary, maybe from plexi instead.

After 3 years, I'm finally getting a transfer that will cut my daily commute by 3 hours! I'm hoping for 10 hour days aswell. Now I can get serious with this stuff.


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_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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PostPosted: December 28, 2008, 10:16 am 
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Ignore the low center in the rear. The spare is buried in the clay and nearly vertical. It would lay horizontal. Front fenders are fixed with a normal opening hood. Roof height is 47.5" (1.9" scale) but looks much lower due to the high cowl to cover the large engine.

Most recent photos at the top 01/01/2009.
I need to find matching diameter fog and turn signals.


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_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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 Post subject: Re: Scooter mod.
PostPosted: May 25, 2009, 1:09 pm 
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How's the scooter doing? Is it on the road?

I'm thinking of doing something similar with my handlebars...bring them back to suit the geometry of my (human) frame, and in to get them out of the air a bit more. I'm concerned that might affect the handling, making it less stable/more responsive.

Thoughts?

-dave

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