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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:03 am 
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Wheres our update you slacker!! :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:01 am 
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Location: Richmond Kentucky
I know, I know, I've been building a truggy for my boss who is also my father-in-law...kinda hard to say no to THAT one :cry:
I have played with the body work and AGAIN I suck at this part :? I thought it would be easy since it lacks much body to begin with....I was wrong.
PooK
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:21 pm 
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Location: Subs of Detroit, MI
Your trike looks amazing. You have some skill with fabricating and that is evident in your build. Can you give me some numbers on your front suspension. Really looking for info on those R6 shocks with the different years the parts came from. Also the final suspension travel and spring rate at the wheel... that or the angle at which the pushrods are running

*EDIT*

So i went back and read a bit more in the thread. You meanted that they are 2002 shocks, but im guessing you are just saying the spring is off a 2002 shock as the unit itself looks like a 2003-2005 (i should know i had an R6 lol). What year is your bellcrank off? I have one like that in my garage but you dont happen to have the distances from each hole do you? i want to see if mine is the same. Basically i want to replicate what you have done with your shocks on my car and just wanted some part info and final numbers (spring rate and travel)

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2007 R1 Powered Mid Engine Street & Track Car
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:45 pm 
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Hey thanks!
The shocks are from an 02 "R1" I think the difference was in the spring rate? the red spring on the R6 being a bit softer but I'm not sure. I am also not sure about the valving between the two shocks....prob the same?
I think the spring rate is in the 450lbs/in range? maybe it was 430ish (can't find my paper) and I can't use them anyway :( .
The springs are 7" free length 2.25"id so hypercoil and others do make springs.
The R1's are 11 3/4" out and can comp to 9" less if you leave in the bump stop.
The bell crank is from the same bike 02 to 03 R1.
I wish I knew what my spring rates will be? I dont even know the all up weight yet. If you know (or anyone else does), the proper way to calc push rod to unequal bell crank to pre-loaded springs I would sure love to know :BH: I get a headache every time I try!
The rest of my susp wouldnt interest you, I'm not allowing much bump or droop at all, in fact I turned the bellcrank around to force it to the bumpstop even quicker, It's gonna be a rough ride but I think it needs to corner as flat as pos. and it was all done using the ultra sufficticated string computer!
PooK

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:01 pm 
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Ah i see. The 03-05 R6 has the same shock body style and reservoir. I owned a 04 R6 and currently have an 05 R1 so thats why i thought it was an R6 shock with a new spring, but yea i was looking at going the for the Hypercoils too. As for the spring rate at the wheel its a bit confusing to explain but i can calculate it.

Dimensions needed for rough calculation:
1. LCA pivot point to center of ball joint
2. LCA pivot point to push rod bolt
3. Angle of the pushrod at ride height
4. bellcrank pivot to pushrod eye hole
5. belcrank pivot to shock eye hole
6. spring rate of the stock unit


So i assume basically with the rocker and springless shock you can get the suspension travel you want and your just going to calculate a spring for it from there? I just took a look at their site and it looks like they have just about ever spring rate available. Only problem is the shocks dampening is for 500lb... but you can adjust it to be a bit softer i guess.

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2007 R1 Powered Mid Engine Street & Track Car
Build Log: viewtopic.php?t=4970
Quote:
On the cool points scale you rank just above Isaac Newton and just under Batman.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:14 pm 
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Location: Subs of Detroit, MI
PS find out where your old trike went. If its local in Michigan i would love to go see it

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2007 R1 Powered Mid Engine Street & Track Car
Build Log: viewtopic.php?t=4970
Quote:
On the cool points scale you rank just above Isaac Newton and just under Batman.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:26 pm 
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yeah, I worked out the travel, etc. and was going to wait till it was close to all up weight then ask for some help, maybe buy a few coils to play with, The adjustment on the R1 shocks isn't much so I can't load and unload the coils but maybe an inch for trial and error.
I guess none of it's going to matter till I know the sprung weight however.
when I get closer I'll get you those numbers if you wouldn't mind helping a bit.
Ill try to find the guys addy also.
Thanks, PooK

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:46 am 
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sounds good. PS what is that pink roller ball thing by the front drivers side tire?

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2007 R1 Powered Mid Engine Street & Track Car
Build Log: viewtopic.php?t=4970
Quote:
On the cool points scale you rank just above Isaac Newton and just under Batman.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:56 pm 
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sway bar arm mount (an idea still being worked out) if it works out I'll show it later....and if not I'll pretend it never happened :D and it's purple not pink...no pink :shock:
PooK

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:35 am 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F,
seems you are 100% correct and after doing some reading I think the faster I go the more of a problem this will be :?
Thanks for the heads up!
Do you think that the pic below could solve this or should I start looking for a custom rad shop?
The spoiler idea is from Porsche way back, the flat bottom 914 had problem at speed with engine heat being trapped, the solve was two small spoilers on the bottom just ahead of the engine compartment.....seems to have worked ok.
PooK
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:44 pm 
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Your welcome!

Add skirts to each side of the spoiler. The side skirts will help to prevent the airflowing in from the sides to fill the low pressure created by the spoiler.

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My reverse commuter trike build log: viewtopic.php?t=11384
Fitting glass and weatherstripping: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6451
Growing various fruit trees, berry bushes, and wine grapes in zone 7b.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:23 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Little to no air will flow through the existing radiator setup if it has a traditional core.The air must change direction to flow through the tilted radiator core. Your going to need good baffling to force it through. There will be added drag from redirecting the airflow.

FYI, the older corvettes had radiators tilted to a significant degree but they also had special cores that were arranged to match the tilt (i.e., you can see straight through them when tilted to 45 degrees or so).

A few degrees are okay but the greater the angle to the airflow, the greater the flow reduction.


MiataV8, I may be wrong, but I learned that the low pressure (exhaust) side of a radiator is the driving force of the airflow through the radiator, and that the air is more sucked through rather than pushed. The amount of air flowing through the radiator is relative to the strength of the low pressure zone behind the radiator. Otherwise, take for example a normal car who's engine bay has been sealed, the pressure would be higher behind the radiator than in front, and there would be zero air flow or possibly reverse flow. This is true in aircraft anyways.

Usually there is some form of an expansion chamber before the actual radiator face to allow the air to slow down and expand. Of course the length of the chamber is relative, but that is why the opening of the chamber is usually narrower than the radiator. This is also why the amount of drag attributable to the angle of the radiator would be negligible, since the air has slowed down considerably before going through the fins.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:54 pm 
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There is no flow, sucked or pressed without differential pressure. Otherwise, I agree.

Velocity of the air relative to that around it determines the differential.

A radiator does not cool unless air flows across it.

Changing the angle decreases the airflow with the same differential.

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My reverse commuter trike build log: viewtopic.php?t=11384
Fitting glass and weatherstripping: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6451
Growing various fruit trees, berry bushes, and wine grapes in zone 7b.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:10 pm 
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I think I've got a way to run a wider but shorter upright radiator.... :wink:
PooK
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:12 am 
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Jeez, man...you're incredible!

Most high school boys can't even DRAW the kind of shapes you're creating. And theirs don't have to WORK!

Just amazing.

-dave "Pook is my hero" hempy

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