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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: February 10, 2010, 11:32 pm 
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JL1 wrote:
Yeah, I cheated and made the jig on my home made cnc router. That was my last project that I built. It was the first thing that got built on my build table. Down the road I am thinking about cutting out a sweet dash for the car.]


WOW!!! Now I can't WAIT to see your shop! You'll have to teach me a thing or two about your CNC router. I've had something like that on my "someday" list for years.

-dave

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PostPosted: February 13, 2010, 11:38 am 
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This is gonna be very cool!
Where in Lex are you?
PooK

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PostPosted: February 13, 2010, 3:27 pm 
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Location: Houston TX
Question: How did you determine the distance between bottom curved tube and top curved tube?


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PostPosted: February 17, 2010, 10:36 am 
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Poboy, for the height of the top tube frame, I used the tried and true locost method, TLAR (that looks about right). They ended up roughly 20in above the table. I did have then lower at first but when I sat in the seat, my elbow was hitting the tube so I raised it so that it goes under it.
I will try and find my engine/tran dimensions that I wrote down somewhere, if not, i'll break out the measuring stick again.

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PostPosted: February 17, 2010, 10:54 am 
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Well, remember when I said it was going to be a little tricky trying to get my frame tubes out of the 2-18ft pieces of DOM, here is what I had to do. The bottom tubes were not long enough to reach the rear subframe so i had to cut and splice the tube to turn into the frame. I briefly tried to increase the radius so I wouldn't have to, but this is about all the HF roller wanted.
Attachment:
File comment: rear passenger bottom tube, just another guy wishing for a longer tube
Picture 040.jpg
Picture 040.jpg [ 201.66 KiB | Viewed 3621 times ]

I plan to trim off the front subframe mount and caps the ends of the tube. If I plan it right, there will be a diagonal from the top tube to this lower corner to add some strength.
Attachment:
File comment: driver rear
Picture 041.jpg
Picture 041.jpg [ 219 KiB | Viewed 3624 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: rear top connection to subframe
Picture 042.jpg
Picture 042.jpg [ 205.31 KiB | Viewed 3626 times ]


Up next I need to add the connection to the front subframe and then layout the engine position.

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PostPosted: February 17, 2010, 1:35 pm 
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Beautiful job on the tubing! But you can continue the bends where you need to by sleeving the end and sticking it into the receiver of a small pickup trailer hitch. Put some sleeves in the other end, put another 20 feet of tubing or pipe in the end, and, amazingly, one person can deform the tube. The maximum bending moment will be at the hitch (linearly decreasing) so switch the tube end for end to get the bend you need. I've had a couple of extra people pushing on various places on the tubing to fine tune. Someone knowledgable challenged me on this, but if you do the math it works. Near 40 feet of leverage is the trick. I did my whole car this way out of .093 wall 2 inch A36 tubing.


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PostPosted: February 17, 2010, 11:37 pm 
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Location: Houston TX
JL1 wrote:
Poboy, for the height of the top tube frame, I used the tried and true locost method, TLAR (that looks about right). They ended up roughly 20in above the table. I did have then lower at first but when I sat in the seat, my elbow was hitting the tube so I raised it so that it goes under it.
I will try and find my engine/tran dimensions that I wrote down somewhere, if not, i'll break out the measuring stick again.

Thank you.

About that lower tube/sub frame, who not keep that bit of subframe and use it to gusset or reinforce that area? It'll give you a nice fat area to connect your diagonal.


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PostPosted: February 26, 2010, 4:45 pm 
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dan52001a wrote:
you can continue the bends where you need to by sleeving the end and sticking it into the receiver of a small pickup trailer hitch. Put some sleeves in the other end, put another 20 feet of tubing or pipe in the end, and, amazingly, one person can deform the tube.

Humm, interesting, didn't think of that. I originally was going to cut off the ends that didn't get bent but I had to work with what I had. I'll keep that in mind for the next time. The unbent portions ended up in somewhat of a concealed location so I doubt anyone will ever notice, (except now that I told everyone, geezz)

Poboy wrote:
About that lower tube/sub frame, who not keep that bit of subframe and use it to gusset or reinforce that area? It'll give you a nice fat area to connect your diagonal.

That front mount isn't really needed and I always like to add lightness, (that and someone already cut it off)

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PostPosted: February 26, 2010, 5:17 pm 
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More progress made, all in an attempt to get the front and rear subframes connected together. I lined up the two the best I could. From what I measured, the rear subframe is symmetrical so I lined it up down the middle and got it square to the table. Based on my ride height, it needed to sit about 1.5in off the table to keep the pivots the same height for a stock S2000. The rear needed to be raised a little higher to get the diff flange vertical. I then squared up the front subframe and if more adjustment is needed, that's what the control arms are for.

I added/extended tubes to help support the front subframe.
Attachment:
IMG_0833.JPG
IMG_0833.JPG [ 169.89 KiB | Viewed 3616 times ]


I also added some gussets for the the top frame tube termination into the top of the rear subframe.
Attachment:
IMG_0829.JPG
IMG_0829.JPG [ 202.4 KiB | Viewed 3617 times ]


I trimmed and capped the lower rear frame rails.
Attachment:
IMG_0867.JPG
IMG_0867.JPG [ 175.29 KiB | Viewed 3616 times ]


I kept checking and rechecking the sub frames' locations and finally I wised up and said enough is enough, so I tacked them in place. I then broke out the roll of tape and started laying out the diagonal bracing. I tried to compromise between evenly spaced and tube joints that need to support other things like the windshield rollbar, I think it'll work.
Attachment:
IMG_0864.JPG
IMG_0864.JPG [ 183.2 KiB | Viewed 3616 times ]


I needed to figure out some of the bracing around the engine compartment so the engine had to be put in place, (the first of many I'm sure). I sat it in place, and wow, I knew the engines height but something about seeing it in person gives it new perspective. The hood could end up very interesting, wait, who needs a stinking hood!
Attachment:
File comment: Humm, starting to look like a car now!
IMG_0872.JPG
IMG_0872.JPG [ 214.39 KiB | Viewed 3620 times ]

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PostPosted: February 26, 2010, 5:35 pm 
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What is the height of the engine, from the bottom of the pan to the top of the valve cover? Interested to see how it would fit in one of my frames.


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PostPosted: February 27, 2010, 9:58 am 
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JL, great build so far but gee, thats a lot of engine sticking up above the top spars to be hiding??

Dan this is a K20a, maybe give you an idea (thats 20" full width including box and a CD there at the front to help scale it).


Attachments:
K20a vertical.jpg
K20a vertical.jpg [ 80.02 KiB | Viewed 4566 times ]
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PostPosted: February 27, 2010, 12:30 pm 
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Thanks! Looks like between 23 and 24 inches high.


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PostPosted: February 27, 2010, 1:06 pm 
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Give me till later in the day and I'll post you a pic of a F20 & and F22 if you want it.

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PostPosted: February 27, 2010, 1:20 pm 
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I went ahead and took the pics before I got involved.

This is a fresh pull of a F20. It hasn't been cleaned up so I hope you can see all you want to see.


Attachments:
DSCF6556.jpg
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DSCF6557.jpg
DSCF6557.jpg [ 63.58 KiB | Viewed 4511 times ]
DSCF6558.jpg
DSCF6558.jpg [ 80.17 KiB | Viewed 4517 times ]
DSCF6559.jpg
DSCF6559.jpg [ 58.1 KiB | Viewed 4514 times ]

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PostPosted: February 27, 2010, 7:58 pm 
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I know the engine is sticking quite a ways above the frame tubes but that's the price to pay to use the F20C engine. My self imposed rule of not sticking the sump below the bottom frame doesn't help the situation either. I'm seriously considering not even bothering with a hood at this point. I intend to panel in the passenger compartment and floor and that's about it, what ya think, totally crazy? This will be a fair weather car only driven when its nice except for the stray rainstorm. My only concern would be the electrical but most of that will be protected under something resembling a traditional scuttle/dash. Then its a matter of protecting the wire harnesses to the engine and fuel system. Something I'll keep thinking about.

A little late to the party, but here some additional dimensions of the F20C engine.
Attachment:
F20C engine dimensions.jpg
F20C engine dimensions.jpg [ 112.54 KiB | Viewed 3629 times ]

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