LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently August 14, 2018, 4:24 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 12:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 12, 2012, 11:56 am
Posts: 630
Location: Pemberton, BC
I'm testing the waters about selling my 7, and have listed it locally on Craigslist. It occurred to me, that if I really will sell it, it may be a good idea to have the purchaser sign some kind of a waiver of liability. Along the lines of, " this was built by an amateur; it could disintegrate at any moment, causing injury and/or death; no professional has had any involvement" .... that kind of stuff. Has anyone seen something like this, or has a copy that could be amended, or do we have in our midst someone who could make a template for others to share? I have no clue if this is necessary or if it would stand up in a court, but it probably wouldn't hurt.
Thoughts and ideas would be muchly appreciated.
BTW, I have listed it for $ 13,500 CDN (about $ 10,500 US) and had 6 responses. More than I thought.

_________________
Martin


My build log:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14520&start=0
My build video:
https://vimeo.com/143524140


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 1:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 22, 2010, 4:43 pm
Posts: 309
Location: Livermore, Calif.
Martin-
You've asked the $10,000 question! This subject comes up occasionally and I'm not sure there is an adequate answer.

Here's one approach taken by rocktman back in 2015:

http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=17742&hilit=liability

One approach would be to sell the car as a project and/or partially disassembled.

I'm curious to see the opinions of others on this board.

Cheers,
Roy

_________________
Build log http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16510


Last edited by RoyzMG on August 8, 2018, 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 2:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 17, 2008, 9:11 am
Posts: 4648
Location: West Chicago,IL
I really don't think any waiver will protect a builder. It is good to have the buyer acknowledge in writing that he knows it was hand built by an amateur. However I don't think that it will hold any weight in a court. Further, assume the buyer becomes a seller. the subsequent buyer hasn't absolved you from any liability.

That being said, I did have the following language in the Bill Of sale signed by the buyer, a 2nd original of which I still keep.

Quote:
The Buyer acknowledges that the vehicle is a homemade vehicle, fully appreciates the risk/danger, that the Buyer agrees to have the vehicle inspected by a licensed mechanic and will have any noted items addressed. The buyer accepts all liability thereof.



In the end, contracts and waivers aside, anyone can sue for any reason. It then becomes a test of how good is your attorney vs theirs.

_________________
Chuck.

“Any suspension will work if you don’t let it.” - Colin Chapman

Visit my active Cushman Truckster resurrection log: over HERE
or my archival Locost build log: over HERE


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 3:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 30, 2005, 1:28 am
Posts: 1242
Location: Sunny-Okanagan, Canada, eh?!
But you have plates, correct?, So it passed the safety inspection and the structural integrity inspection? If so, that should be "enough."

This ain't 'Murica, where people sue at the drop of a hat.

Doesn't mean you won't be sued, but it needed to pass inspections, and it passed those inspections, you should be good.

I have not sold mine yet, so take that for what it's worth.

_________________
The Lethal Locost
The Lethal Locost 2 - Even More Lethalerer


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 5:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 22, 2010, 4:43 pm
Posts: 309
Location: Livermore, Calif.
Quoting from SkinnyG's website regarding Licensing:

Quote:
This has been, by far, the most frustrating part of the project.

What is supposed to happen:

If the frame is homebuilt you may be required to undergo a Structural Integrity inspection
Apply to the province for a Ubilt VIN (technically it is a “Replikit,” but since you are not a manufacturer who can affix your own VIN, you register as a Ubilt)
The completed car must undergo a Private Vehicle Inspection
A BC-Assigned VIN is affixed by the shop that passes the vehicle
Get a weigh scale certificate


The requirements are much stricter in Canada then they are in most states. This should alleviate your fears. People in the US assume that since a car is registered by the DMV it must be somewhat safe. I'm not sure that's a valid assumption. We in the US should be a bit more concerned about the liability question.

_________________
Build log http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16510


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 6:52 pm 
Offline
Automotive Encyclopedia
User avatar

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 5665
Now, you have coverage. Not sure that will be the case once you sell it and someone runs into it. Suits are made to settle and anybody can sue here.

_________________
MV8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3C1Ep ... D3E18BB447


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 7, 2018, 10:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 8, 2010, 8:02 pm
Posts: 556
Location: White Rock, BC, Canada
FYI, in BC (and presumably elsewhere) the inspections are there to ensure the vehicle meets the MINIMUM requirements to be on BC hwys at the time it was inspected. It's not intended to absolve any liability and will not hold up in court. The moment it leaves the Inspector's possession, it no longer is his liability. That being said; if it has something wrong with it that gets caught on the way home he will likely lose his inspection license.

_________________
Build log: viewtopic.php?t=9291


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 8, 2018, 10:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: March 19, 2011, 10:22 am
Posts: 1150
Location: Holden, Alberta, Canada
I would imagine it would be along the same lines as selling a home built aircraft........
https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/next-steps/selling-and-buying-articles/part-3-waiver-and-releases-buying-and-selling-a-homebuilt

_________________
Perry

'If man built it, man can fix it'
"No one ever told me I couldn't do it."
"If you can't build it safe, don't build it."

Perry's Locost Super Che7enette Build
Perry's TBird Based 5.0L Super 7 L.S.O.
Perry's S10 Super 7 The 3rd
Perry's 4th Build, The Topolino 500 (Little Mouse) Altered


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 8, 2018, 11:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 12, 2012, 11:56 am
Posts: 630
Location: Pemberton, BC
Thanks all for your thoughts; all very good points.
I agree that an inspected vehicle does provide some legitimacy, but like Cory says, probably not for very long. I like Chuck's idea of having the buyer go through an inspection. I would probably work that into an agreement. Perry, thanks for the link. I did that when I sold my airplane. There were some nights of tossing and turning when I went trough that process, but, there are no hordes of ICBC lawyers prowling the aviation scene. And these guys are what worries me. ( ICBC is our provincial insurance corporation, that is billions in debt and probably looking for pennies under rocks).
Anyway, for now I chickened out and took it off the market. Didn't really want to do it anyway. So the solution to the problem is easy: build a bigger garage. Problem solved. :twisted:

_________________
Martin


My build log:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14520&start=0
My build video:
https://vimeo.com/143524140


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Waiver of Liability
PostPosted: August 8, 2018, 12:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 29, 2006, 9:10 pm
Posts: 2911
Location: Oregon, usually
Here in the US, I had a similar waiver on a kit aircraft thrown out because the buyer signed it "under duress"; the argument being that my company wouldn't have sold him the aircraft if he hadn't signed the waiver. Hopefully 'duress' means something different in Canada.

_________________
Locost builder and adventurer, and owner/operator of http://www.kineticvehicles.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
POWERED_BY