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 Post subject: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:49 pm 
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Location: Oakhurst Tx
After three and a half years of work I have completed my 4+4+2 Locost. Everything works and looks good. I have kept all records and the file of records and receipts is 3 + inches high. I have titles for the donors an all sorts of supporting documents.

After many phone calls to every police agency with in 50 miles, NONE of witch ever called back, I located the Montgomery County Auto Theft Task Force. They informed me that they could do the inspection for the form 68A. I loaded my locost on a trailer and drove to its Conroe, Texas, location. I rang a bell and a lady asked what I needed. I explained it to her and was told a detective would be with me shortly. When the detective came out he walked past, did not make eye contact or say hello. He only said what can I do for you. It went down hill from there.

He asked where I got the gearbox and rear end I explained and gave him the donor title. He walked off and about 10 minutes later came back out side and said he would have put the car on a lift rack so he could see the serial number of the transmission. I explained that there is no unique serial number on the transmission. He then asked were the serial number for the motor was located. The motor came from a boat donor; a 1982 OMC inboard/out drive. And I showed him in the OMC owner’s manual where the serial number was located (on a stick on tag attached to the valve cover) and that it matched the number on the boat title. After much discussion the detective determined that the engine serial was not in the right place and if it is not stamped into a non-removal part on the engine it was not acceptable. Further, if he could not see the serial number on the transmission he would not sign the 68A form.

It is clear that the deceive considered me a thief and did not have any time for low lifes such as me even though I have no record, have never been arrested, am retired USAF, and an honest, tax paying, native born citizen of Texas. This is such a ridiculous situation it’s hard to believe. I have no idea where to turn or how to proceed.

I, like any car builder, have spent many hours searching and researching on the internet and I am fully aware what a VIN number is, and what information is included in it, I also know anyone can change any part of the drive train and it does not in any way affect the VIN number, However, the detective informed me the VIN number would render the transmission serial number. How can that be? When you do every thing by the book and it is not good enough what are you to do?

Out of desperation I told the detective I would take the car home, completely disassemble it, and bring him the transmission. He informed me that would not work because I could just swap any transmission for the one in the car. I asked if he would come watch me dissemble the car. His answer was that he was far to busy for that.

I am at a total loss at this point and I am hoping some one can offer and idea or direct me to a good gear head lawyer.

JIM

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Building Locost using S 10 Donor and 7+442 Chassis


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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:55 pm 
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Location: san francisco bay area
It's someplace to start. ..

http://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011/25/texas-street-rod-and-custom-vehicle-bill-signed-into-law

Quote:
Texas Street Rod and Custom Vehicle Bill Signed Into Law
in Breaking News Government Affairs

After an effort that stretched into two legislative sessions, SEMA-model legislation to create a vehicle registration classification for street rods and custom vehicles (including kit cars and replicas) and provide for special license plates was signed into law by Governor Rick Perry. Slated to go into effect on September 1, 2011, the new law defines a street rod as an altered vehicle manufactured before 1949 and a custom as an altered vehicle at least 25 years old and manufactured after 1948. The law also allows for the use of non-original materials and creates a titling and registration criterion that assigns these vehicles the same model-year designation as the production vehicle they most closely resemble. In addition, the law only holds street rods, customs and replicas to the equipment standards specified by law during the model year listed on the title and exempts them from the state’s emissions inspection program.

For details, contact Steve McDonald at stevem@sema.org.

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"There are times when a broken tool is better than a sound one, or a twisted personality more useful than a whole one.
For instance, a whole beer bottle isn't half the weapon that half a beer bottle is ..." Randall Garrett


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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:26 am
Posts: 5
Location: Montrose, Alabama
:BH:


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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:26 am
Posts: 5
Location: Montrose, Alabama
[img]
Attachment:
DSC05574%20s.jpg
[/img]

Great looking build, Jim !!!


Attachments:
DSC05574 s.jpg
DSC05574 s.jpg [ 989.17 KiB | Viewed 2154 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:54 pm 
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The engine and trans are all they really care about.

The point of the inspection is to determine if you are in possession of stolen property (i.e. maybe a thief).

It is your responsibility to prove to the officer that the engine and trans are not stolen, just as you would expect it to be the officers responsiblity to have sufficient proof they are stolen before arresting you and confiscating them. You didn't prove anything.

Most transmissions do have vin ID number plates.

I suggest you install an engine with a vin and find one for the trans.

What you do with it after inspection is up to you.

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Growing various fruit trees, berry bushes, and wine grapes in zone 7b.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3C1Ep ... D3E18BB447


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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:29 pm 
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Always Moore!
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Hang in there Jim - you'll figure something out.

It seems odd that at least the transmission doesn't have something to identify it. Maybe I'm used to newer stuff but it seems like they always have some identifying markings. What is your transmission from?

Any idea on the legality of properly identifying the engine on your own?

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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:21 pm
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Location: Oakhurst Tx
Andrew,

Thank you and I will hang in. The engine does have a serial number that is clearly printed on the Texas state issued boat title. The transmission does have identifying numbers, namely; the part number of the case 13-52-065-916 and a metal tag attached to back of it - 1352-193 - which identifies the transmission as a T5 made by Borg-Warner. It lists the gear ratios of each gear but is not a unique serial number. The transmission was removed from my S-10 donor along with the rear end.

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Building Locost using S 10 Donor and 7+442 Chassis


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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:45 pm 
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WA5KMA, I sent you another pm.

For those who don't know, here are the partial vin locations on several common, older, domestic transmissions.


Attachments:
muncie vin.jpg
muncie vin.jpg [ 7.86 KiB | Viewed 2020 times ]
saginaw vin.jpg
saginaw vin.jpg [ 6.43 KiB | Viewed 2020 times ]
T5 vin 2.jpg
T5 vin 2.jpg [ 9.3 KiB | Viewed 2020 times ]
T5 vin.jpg
T5 vin.jpg [ 8.22 KiB | Viewed 2020 times ]
t400 vin.jpg
t400 vin.jpg [ 7.85 KiB | Viewed 2020 times ]

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Growing various fruit trees, berry bushes, and wine grapes in zone 7b.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3C1Ep ... D3E18BB447
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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:15 pm 
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FYI for anybody in a similar situation:

The Texas Parks & Wildlife Department inspect these older inboards where there is no partial vin and the boat manufacturers label is missing from the engine. The inspection is conducted by a game warden (also a LEO) who assigns a new number to the engine. The form is a pwd130U, and can be completed for titling, registration or just for the boat buyer to pay sales tax. If the boat mfgs label is not missing, there is no point in assigning a number. The point of the inspection is to ensure the major assemblies are not in the system as being stolen.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/

The Texas Department of Motor Vehicles has the forms except for the one completed by the Public Safety, but they also provide information on the process. I spoke to them and they were very helpful:
http://www.txdmv.gov/whatyouneed/forms/ ... ration.htm

I was told the vtr68a is a controlled form but I found it here:
http://www.cctexas.com/files/g23/VTR-68-A.pdf
http://www.cctexas.com/?fuseaction=main.view&page=2298

The Texas Department of Public Safety actually performs the 68a inspection.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/vi/index.htm

The detective is performing basically the same inspection as the game warden, so they should recognize each other's authority. A form 130U from the warden for the boat and motor theft search along with the title should be all you need to satisfy the question of "Is it stolen?".

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Growing various fruit trees, berry bushes, and wine grapes in zone 7b.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3C1Ep ... D3E18BB447


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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:51 am 
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Location: Massachusetts
MV8, you are a paper work rocket scientist. It's just jaw dropping. Me, I just head for a corner and start mumbling and drooling.

I hope this helps and thanks for the help here and other places when you come thru on this stuff. I know it must take a real effort even if your talented at this type of thing.

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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:30 am 
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Not a rocket scientist, just lots of practice. Still working on it. Jim sent me some photos I asked for. I expect we can get this straight in the next couple days.

The form for Parks and Wildlife is actually a pwd143 instead of the 130u.

Jim found his vin on the left side and could only see it in a mirror. It took a little sanding and soap stone over the numbers to see it at all, then flip the image with a photo editor. Thats why it is a good idea to have photos of the pertinent vins to provide. If the inspector can't tell, then it is a no-go.

Even if the Detective was familiar with the inboard engine issue, the trans would have been a problem.

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Growing various fruit trees, berry bushes, and wine grapes in zone 7b.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3C1Ep ... D3E18BB447


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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:21 pm
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Location: Oakhurst Tx
Thanks to all the help from Miatav8 I found the serial number on my T-5 gearbox as shown in the pictures. the view of the number is as seen in the inspection mirror.


Attachments:
1003.jpg
1003.jpg [ 22.93 KiB | Viewed 1867 times ]
GEARBOXNR lo.jpg
GEARBOXNR lo.jpg [ 24.78 KiB | Viewed 1867 times ]

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Building Locost using S 10 Donor and 7+442 Chassis
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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:34 pm 
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I spoke to the DPS Detective to find out what he would accept, a PWD Game Warden to determine what they could do, and Evinrude Technical Support to determine what should be there on the engine.

DPS agreed to accept an affidavit from PWD stating the engine was not stolen.

PWD stated Jim would need to sign an affidavit at one of their 27 Game Warden Offices to declare ownership and arrange for an inspection by a Warden, who will come to his home. According to the Warden I spoke to, it is illegal to have an engine where it appears the ID numbers have been removed, in which case the engine and whatever it has been installed in may be confiscated until a determination is made.

Jim knows what to do, and will advise on how it turns out.

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Growing various fruit trees, berry bushes, and wine grapes in zone 7b.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3C1Ep ... D3E18BB447


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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:20 pm
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Location: The Woodlands, Tx
I'll be heading to Conroe to get mine checked out too.(in many.....many months) I was thinking about having the officer come to the garage to check the engine, and at the same time, not have it mounted in the car, just in the event that it is stolen, that I don't get the whole darn thing taken away. Got it on CraigsList....so ya never know.

Paranoid?

In any case, good luck, and please give a detailed report of the pain and suffering for the rest of us in good ol' Montgomery County.

-Hank


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 Post subject: Re: TEXAS BILDERS BEWARE
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:09 am 
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Jim spoke to someone higher up in DPS, and has another inspection scheduled for Tuesday with the same Detective. Jim thinks the Detective's Lieutenant may have received a number of calls from different areas about this specific situation.

I assume DPS has as just as much capability as PWD in determining if the boat engine is stolen. It is just a question of what they are willing to accept. It might appear to some that the squeeky wheel is getting greased, but it depends entirely on what is being squeeked about.

Of course, Jim still must PASS the inspection or loose his car.

One could bring an engine and trans to be checked for theft, form or no form, but it would be nice to get a receipt for the check to submit at the time of the vtr68a inspection.

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Growing various fruit trees, berry bushes, and wine grapes in zone 7b.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3C1Ep ... D3E18BB447


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