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 Post subject: New York - Registering
PostPosted: June 30, 2010, 1:17 pm 
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I'm about to start my registration process and figured I would start a thread with the process and what I know so far.
Most of the information pertains to all of New York state but some is different for upstate vs NYC, particularly the emissions rules.

New York has a 'homemade' classification for vehicles which is what I will be registering under.
New York seems to be rather strict in their application of their rules but at least there are clearly defined rules to comply with.

You can get a packet with a list of required equipment, required forms, and the general process by mailing or calling:
NYSDMV Technical Services Bureau
Vehicle Safety Services
6 Empire State Plaza
Albany NY 12228
(518) 474-5282


That will give you most of what you need to do. What follows is what I have found out so far that they don't really spell out.

Emissions:
As a homemade, the only emissions rules that you must comply with are that you have to have a sealing gas cap.
(Source: http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/forms/cr79up.pdf)

MCO:
In place of the MCO requirement you must have all your receipts for all major parts, they didn't specify what major parts consist of, so I kept all receipts.

Windshield Markings:
Your windshield must have safety glass markings on it of either AS-1, AS-10, or AS-14. But if it doesn't have the marks on it you can get a letter on company letterhead from the people who cut/made your windshield confirming that the glass does indeed meet those specs.

Light Markings:
ALL lights must have DOT or SAE markings on them, even the rear license plate light which I was told would have an L mark on it.

Wipers and defroster, and visors:
Even if it doesn't make sense, you have to have wipers, a defroster, and sun visors, no exceptions.
The wipers have to be electric powered, no hand crank, and they must have at least 2 speeds, and, you have to have two blades to meet the "clear enough of the windshield" requirement.
You also have to have visors and defroster on your windshield...
Even though non of this really makes sense for me because I'm using brookland style windscreens and a visor will be right in my line of sight, I will definitely never be driveing in the cold, and I have more problems to worry about than a little rain on my tiny windshield if I ever get caught in it. The guy at the technical services bureau said it doesn't matter, still need them. He did give me some 'inside tips' though. A clip-on fan plugged into your ciggarette lighter and pointing at the windshield will count as a defroster, and a 'clip-on' visor from any local parts place will work for the visors.

Weight:
The scale that you get your car mesured on has to be certified by the State Dept. of Weights and Measures.

The process:
You get you car 'finished' enough, fill out and send them the form that comes with the packet along with pictures of each side of the car, weight receipt, any confirmation letters like for the glass ratings, and your receipts for major parts. They approve or don't your vehicle for application for a VIN and if approved you are given a location and time for you VIN inspection. At the VIN inspection they verify everything that you filled out on above mentioned form and give you a VIN. Once you get your VIN it's the standard NYS registration process, including your regular state inspection. You will NOT be given an 'in-transit' permit for any of these stages either, so you will have to tow your vehicle everywhere.


I will be starting this process hopefully next week and will update this thread as the process progresses. Hopefully everything goes smoothly.


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PostPosted: July 19, 2010, 10:22 am 
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My photos and paperwork made it to the approval office, they called me today and said that I will have a problem with lights due to the DOT markings on the stop lights and front directionals.
The stop lights have to have a "S T" marking on them and the front directionals have to have "I or D or P" on them. So I have to replace those.

He also said I need to do some kind of bumper, definatly on the front, the back might be ok but it would be more likely to pass if I put something on there as well.


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PostPosted: July 19, 2010, 12:38 pm 
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crappers on the lens marking requirements, do they have to be put there by the manufacturor or can the be placed by a "certifying party"? :wink:
do they want an impact rating on the bumpers since just about any bumper from the 60's would fail current requirements? would it have to cover the front tires :puke: ? if not a couple of brackets and j-bars will get you from the underside of the chassis to the outside of the body. a horizontal beam for now and then change to a combination jackpoint/towhook after you certify. .. cheesy but it might get you thru.

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PostPosted: July 19, 2010, 12:50 pm 
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Heah yea, I should just get a set of letter stamps and melt the letters into the lenses :wink:

I asked if there were any rules about the bumpers and he said just put anything there a bar or a grill or something. For the front I think I'm just going to tack something inplace, 2 bars comeing out of the nose to a bent horizontal bar across the front. Probably just a bar of some type for the back as well.


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PostPosted: July 19, 2010, 1:09 pm 
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Currently in the NY State Legislature is Bill A02429. it is being held for consideration in the transportation comittee.

Do a search, or follow this link:
http://www.nyassembly.gov/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A02429%09%09&Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Votes=Y&Memo=Y&Text=Y

In its current form, it allows for no bumpers and the car must only meet the requirements of the year of car it resembles. It also exempts the emissions requirements.

For those currently seeking registration, it may may not be passed in time. However if you are starting your build, maybe not. Everybody in New York should contact their legislator, specifically those on the transportation committee, and let them know they need to support this bill.

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PostPosted: July 21, 2010, 2:34 pm 
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Location: NY
Did they say anything about the height of the bumper? The MV-529 equipment list form says that some part of the bumper needs to be between 16 and 20 inches. Also, do you know if a couple vertical bumperettes would work?

There are also height requirements on MV-529 for some of the lights, but I didn't see anything about markings. It would be great if they had some publication with these details.


Last edited by Brad20j on July 21, 2010, 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: July 21, 2010, 2:44 pm 
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Location: NY
I was looking at that bill. It follows the SEMA model, which requires a statement limiting the use of the vehicle. Does anyone know how this has been interpreted/enforced in other states? Can one use custom car under the SEMA laws to go grocery shopping, for example? Can they the car be used every weekend? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm trying to figure out whether the SEMA limits would have a real and substantial effect on using a car I build, which won't be a daily driver, but it may be nice to be able to do mundane things with it; or whether I'd need things like bumpers and lights that are high enough.

Thanks,
Brad

rx7locost wrote:
Currently in the NY State Legislature is Bill A02429. it is being held for consideration in the transportation comittee.

Do a search, or follow this link:
http://www.nyassembly.gov/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A02429%09%09&Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Votes=Y&Memo=Y&Text=Y

In its current form, it allows for no bumpers and the car must only meet the requirements of the year of car it resembles. It also exempts the emissions requirements.

For those currently seeking registration, it may may not be passed in time. However if you are starting your build, maybe not. Everybody in New York should contact their legislator, specifically those on the transportation committee, and let them know they need to support this bill.


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PostPosted: July 21, 2010, 5:57 pm 
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Location: West Chicago,IL
from the proposed bill... the emphasis on occasional transportation is mine:

Quote:
....motor vehicle which is owned or operated as an exhibition
piece or a collectors item, and which is used for participation in
club activities, exhibits, tours, parades, occasional transportation
and similar uses
, but not used for general daily transportation,....


I can't say for sure how your local police will interpret it. I would interpret it as if you have a separate vehicle that you use for daily transportation, then the Locost is a "collector's item" per the proposed bill. If you drive the Locost every day, week after week, to and from work past the police dept, then maybe..... not so much. I do know that in Illinois, I have used my MGA's registered as "antique vehicle" with similar legal restrictions for over 20 years. I have driven it through multiple states. I even display vintage 1956 Illinois plates (totally legal in IL). The real plates are in the trunk out of sight. I have used it to get to work on several occasions when my DD was under repair. I think nothing of going for a drive on the weekends and if I stop at a store, then so be it. I have never been ticketd, or even stopped for anything. Zip.... Nada.... Zilch...

If you are driving the Locost in such an "interpreted" manner, it might help if you carried a copy of the enacted bill just in case. In the unlikely event that you do get an unfriendly law enforcement agent, you still have the "due process" to fall back on. Chances are better than 50/50 that you'd get a differently minded judge. Of course if you are caught racing or drifting on public streets and this ticket is just one more added to a list of others, then all bets are off.

If you don't already have a year-round vehicle (I'm guessing not a motorcycle in NY) registered in your name, then it probably won't be in your interest to try for the SEMA registration route.

I have planned on registering my Locost to the Illinois version of the SEMA law since day one. It makes it soooo much easier. No catalyst converter, no emissions testing, no bumpers, no defroster, no ......, I can use the Megasquirt and get cheap insurance. If Illinois didn't have such a bill, I doubt if the Locost would have ever made my bucket list. I do have 2 DD's in a houshold of 2 drivers so, if necessary, I can show that the MGA (soon Locost) is not needed for "general daily transportation" as the bill states.

Just my interpretation, with a little bit of real life experience added in.

Chuck

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Visit my active Cushman Truckster resurrection log: over HERE
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PostPosted: July 21, 2010, 11:14 pm 
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Maybe you could claim the nose cone is a bumper. You look at any car these days and the bumper is molded plastic the same color as the car. They cost more then your nosecone too. Maybe this isn't a helpful suggestion, but I wonder what a bumper really is. They aren't asking you to meet a collision standard, and bumpers before that were not so substantial...

This stuff drives me crazy....

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PostPosted: July 22, 2010, 7:40 am 
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Yea I thought that the nose would count, but the guy at the approval office saw the pics and said that I need a bumper. The only definition of a bumper that NY give is that it has to protect the lights and body work in a low speed collision and like Brad said between 16 and 20 inches off the ground. Pretty vauge, but I picked up some cheapo 1" iron pipe and some support steel that should fit the bill.

The only way I could see them enforcing a limited use clause is during registration. You have to renew your registration every year and you have to put your current mileage on there. If you put more than X number of miles on it a year they might peg you with a fine or worse, not allow you to re-register.


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PostPosted: July 23, 2010, 12:38 am 
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It may also be worth mentioning that the original did not have a bumper...

good luck

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PostPosted: July 26, 2010, 3:11 pm 
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I got the new ugly front and rear lights on and he said the markings are good now. He also said my new front bumper is good as well.

Attachment:
IMG_2261.JPG
IMG_2261.JPG [ 169.54 KiB | Viewed 4651 times ]


I sent in a picture of my dash/controls just to double check.
Turns out there are a few problems there as well.
My hazards are turned on by pushing a button and turning a turn signal on. That 'is not SAE compliant' it has to be operated with a single button. I also have to be able to turn on the hazard when the key is not in the ignition.... To be SAE compliant the hazard and light controls have to have markings on them as well to indicate what they are...

I have to have a padded dash as well and am currently trying to figure out what constitues a "padded dash" as mine is somewhat flexible and covered in a ruberrized paint and that doesn't count.

I just love it when bureocracy and red tape fly right in the face of common sense.


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PostPosted: July 26, 2010, 3:45 pm 
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I got an email back, I originall asked what a padded dash was and if a 1 foot by 6 inch pad on the passenger side would work and he said yes.

He said that I should buy a dot compliant flasher and lighting system... As if there were such a thing... And I kind of ranted a little about how vague the mv529 was..
To which he replied:

"I understand how a person can have a difficult time understanding the
MV-529 equipment list, we assume that person who builds a custom vehicle
is familiar with all the state and federal safety and emission items for
a motor vehicle. If not I would discourage a person from even attempting
to build a vehicle unless he or she has help from a qualified person to
assist them. To assure that the person is qualified we request they
sign on application that their custom vehicle has all the required
equipment required on form -529 and what is listed in vehicle and
traffic law. Just the equipment section in the Vehicle & Traffic Law is
27 pages long and in addition this person would need to know and has
access to all the federal safety standards which I believe would
probably consist of reading up to 1500 pages and retaining it. I
approve about 300 vehicles a year this is the first time I have had a
person who had difficulties with directional & flashers."

Which i kinda find hard to believe........... whatever I guess .... :BH:


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PostPosted: July 26, 2010, 7:07 pm 
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Thanks for documenting this process. I'm still in planning for the next build, and this will be the first time I've created a car from the ground up instead of rebuilding an existing vehicle. Knowing where to get these NYS regs and what their looking for will save me (and lots of others down the line) lots of heartache.

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PostPosted: July 27, 2010, 3:58 pm 
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How did the DMV know that the markings were missing? Did they ask for closeup pics of each light? Or was that a detail they requested somewhere.

Thanks again,
Brad


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