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 Post subject: Kentucky Registration
PostPosted: December 12, 2007, 1:58 am 
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Has anyone here registered a scratch-built car in Kentucky? From what I've gathered, it's a pretty loose process, not too many land mines, but I'm still worried about it a bit.


I Googled for answers and came up with the following pages. None seem to fit what we're doing exactly.

Process Overview:
http://www.dmv.org/ky-kentucky/custom-built-cars.php

VIN/Motor number application:
http://mvl.ky.gov/MVLWeb/pdf/TC96-169.pdf

Application for Kentucky Certificate of Title/Registration
http://mvl.ky.gov/MVLWeb/pdf/TC96-182.pdf

Affidavit of Motor Vehicle Assembled from Wrecked or Salvaged Motor Vehicles (includes rebuild (paperwork) instructions)
http://mvl.ky.gov/MVLWeb/pdf/TC96-215.pdf

More forms here:
http://mvl.ky.gov/MVLWeb/eform.jsp

-dave

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PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 12:22 am 
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Here is a concise, detailed account of the registration process by a fellow who scratch-built and registered a Lambo replica in Kentucky:

http://www.lambolounge.com/Building_Not ... ntucky.asp

It all sounds very encouraging...a reasonable amount of paperwork and hassle, with success in the end.


-dave

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 Post subject: More links...
PostPosted: August 6, 2008, 9:44 am 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Not sure if you've seen all these. The first link is most pertinent. Seems to me you should just go to the Sheriff's Office and get them to inspect.

http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/kar/601/009/200.htm

http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/kar/TITLE601.HTM

http://transportation.ky.gov/mvl/

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/kar/titles.htm

http://www.fayettecountyclerk.com/fccwe ... agerebuild

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 Post subject: VIN issued
PostPosted: August 21, 2008, 4:40 pm 
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I filled out form TC96-169 about two weeks ago, notarized it, and mailed it to Frankfort (capital of the great Commonwealth of Kentucky) with this cover letter:


Quote:
August 11, 2008

Re: Application for VIN

I am finishing the construction of a a scratch-built replica of a 1957 Lotus Seven. I built it from new raw materials. This is not a rebuilt vehicle, and there is no prior VIN, title, or registration. It is similar to a kit car, but no kit was purchased. As such, there is no Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO). If allowed, I (as manufacturer) am willing to issue an MSO to myself (as builder). I don't know if that's appropriate here or not.

I have receipts for the steel used to fabricate the chassis and all off-the-shelf automotive parts used.

I understand from the Frankfort Rebuilt Office (502-564-xxxx, Mellisa) that I need a sheriff's inspection to accompany this TC96-169 Application for VIN. I have contacted the Sheriff's offices in Fayette, Bourbon, and Harrison Counties to get this inspection without luck.

Fayette County Sherrif's Office (Wendell Johnson, 859-351-xxxx) said he could not do the inspection because he does not have sheriff's dept. letterhead to put the letter on. Bourbon County Sheriff (859-234-xxxx, Christy) and Harrison County Sheriff (859-987-xxxx, Deputy Asbury) say they can't inspect a car without a VIN, and that I need to file the TC96-169 first and call them back after I get the VIN. The Fayette and Harrison County Clerks responded similarly.

At this point, I'm not sure what to do. I am submitting this TC96-169 with hopes I can be issued a VIN, so that I can then get a sheriff's inspection and proceed with the titling and registration process. If a VIN cannot be issued, would you please FAX or email to me a memo I can take to the sheriff's office with explicit instructions of what you need from them? (FAX: to 859-258-xxxx attn: David Hempy or hempy@xxx.xxx )

Alternately, I can tow the car to Frankfort to your office or your designee that may be more familiar with the process. If this would expedite the process, it would be worth the small trouble for me.

I appreciate your attention and look forward to working with you to get my car on the road. Please feel free to call me at 859-351-xxxx any time if there's anything I need to do to expedite the process. I am hopeful that I can get the car licensed before September for a regional car show.


Thank you,




David Hempy

Att: TC96-169, Application for VIN





Today (August 21), I called to see where my VIN application was. Melissa (my new best friend!) said they issued me a VIN this morning and I should get a letter in a day or two.

AW, YEAHHH!!!!

:headbang: :hail: :yay: :cheers: :drive: :thmbsup: :twisted:
:zoom:

I didn't ask for any further details, as she sounded very busy and I don't want to pester my new best friend any more than I have to.

I'll follow up in this thread with the next steps. I think that will include an inspection of the VIN, serial numbers, and odometer...and depending on which deputy sheriff answers the phone, a roadworthiness inspection to indeterminate standards. From there, I think getting a title, registration and tags becomes of the mundane variety.

Who knows...I might just get to drive to KC...LEGALLY! ;-)


-DAVE!

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PostPosted: August 19, 2009, 8:05 pm 
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Wow...hard to believe that last post was a year ago! :-(

Well, I got a letter back from DMV a few days later asking for a sherrif's handwritten inspection on Sheriff Dept. letterhead, and more receipts.

I then dilly-dallied for a year. All my fault, not the gubmint's. First I got a bad case of ennui for not driving to the KC show, then I got distracted, then I found I could autox and track it without tags and progress in the garage slowed to a simmer.

I've recently gotten re-energized and finished up the windshield, lights, horn, etc. It took a few trips to a few different county's sherrif's dept, but I finally got an inspection. None of the counties knew what to do, and most said it couldn't be done. Actually, all of them said no...some more stubbornly than others.

But, the second time I showed up with the car on the trailer at a nearby county sherrif's office, I got them on the phone with the state rebuilt office, and after a few false starts, we decided this was a Dune Buggy, and the state knew what to do with that.

Here's a good tip - There are a few state forms (well, memos, actually) that refer to "How to title a Dune Buggy" or something. Refer to these memos and folks seem to go along with it better. I'll scan and post them later.

Anyway, once we all finally got on the same page, the sheriff's inspector gave me this page, after spending five minutes checking off lights, horn, etc.:

Image

I'm mailing this to Frankfort tonight along with an overwhelming binder of supporting documentation. (If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle 'em with BS!) With any luck, my VIN plate will show up at my county's county clerk in a week or two, and it should be easy street from there. :roll: Guess it's time to start shopping insurance...

-dave "Inspected, injected, detected, infected, neglected and selected!" hempy

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PostPosted: August 19, 2009, 11:36 pm 
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What a good story!

I just went through a not-at-all similar situation yesterday that I found quite amusing.

Two years ago I picked up a totaled RV at auction that had the roof caved in from snow load and the interior was destroyed. Walls buckled, windshields shattered, front fiberglass cap cracked, etc.

I took the paperwork to the DMV the next day to get the title (marked JUNK in huge letters diagonally) only to be told that I can not get a title until it is inspected... I even had them check with the top dog. They said, "don't lose the JUNK title and bill of sale".

So, after two years of destruction, reconstruction, and finally roadworthyness, I went back to the DMV to make sure I had everything in order to bring it in for inspection. They looked at my paperwork, the forms I had filled out, and sold me a "Trip Permit" good for 5 days for only $5. What a deal! Especially since I wasn't going to be able to get a 38' diesel pusher motorhome on a trailer. :|

I had gone through everything, lights, signals, horns (electric & air) wipers, brakes, and everything else required by law for a vehicle in Alaska and I was ready. Or so I thought. I was warned by others who had gone through similar inspections to expect them to come out with a creeper, flashlights, tools, and a long list of areas to inspect and check off the list.

I arrived mid-morning (the slowest time at our DMV) and had no waiting to get started on the paperwork. First step, the inspection. I had to wait for the inspector to finish the one he was currently working on but it was only about a 20 minute wait. Then he said "let's go" and out we went. I had scoped out the parking lot on Monday to figure out where I could possible park this beast, and be able to get out again which is quite important you learn quickly. :BH: So, at an adjoining dirt parking lot we get to the RV. He asks where the VIN is and I open the rear engine access cover and he compares the numbers with the paperwork, and says "Ok, you're good to go, give this paper to the counter". That was it. The big deal inspection.

I'm not complaining though! I am now licensed and rolling. Yes, fuel mileage is painful but it is very energy efficient for a house :mrgreen:

BTW, I have also checked on registering a home built vehicle with no previous VIN or MSO and it is no problem here. Except, you can not license a dune buggy! I asked them why not and they had no answer other than that is what the law says. Funny, eh? So, my dune buggy body that I have in line for projects will be a "sports car" not a dune buggy.

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PostPosted: August 20, 2009, 9:11 am 
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Congrats!

Dune buggy, huh? Must be "A typical case of American blind justice"

BTW; was that signature that you blocked out Officer Obie?

Chuck "on his way to Alice's Restaurant" Schaefer

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PostPosted: August 20, 2009, 5:42 pm 
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Okay...this is getting more interesting.

I drove to the capital today, to save a day of Snail Mail time, but mostly to meet Melisa in the Salvage office for the first time. (She probably doesn't know it, but we've spoken a dozen times on the phone over the past few years regarding this car and my salvage bikes.) I hoped she'd review the docs then and there and give me an initial indication, but feared I'd only get to leave it for her in a folder.

Good news, I met Melisa and she is an efficient, friendly person. A real pleasure to work with. She looked through everything and said it all looked in order and that I could expect my VIN plate in a week or so. :-D

When she looked at the TC96-196 form, (Application for VIN), she asked if I was building a Dune Buggy. "Umm...I guess you could call it that." (I really didn't know what this meant...still don't.) It certainly looks like one in it's current state, I'll admit. She asked me to change where I'd written in "Passenger car" for the type of vehicle and change it to "Dune Buggy." (The form suggests Passenger Car / Truck / Motorcycle / Trailer ) I did this, and she was happy with this, so I wasn't about to make waves.

This is the first I've noted any significant use of the term "Dune Buggy." As I mentioned above, the term is used in the title of a regulation checklist memo (lights, horn, brakes, etc.), and at least one official got a light bulb when the term Dune Buggy came up, but I had considered it a colloquial term, not a legal definition.

I searched the Kentucky Revised Statutes (KRS) (Kentucky's state laws) and the word "dune" does not appear.

I Googled a bit, and the only relevant citation I found was this page:

http://www.bullittcountyclerk.com/motorvehicles_dunebuggies.asp

This is essentially an editorially-expanded version of the "How to Title a Dune Buggy" document I promised to scan last night. (Guess I don't have to scan it now!)

The second sentence scared the crap out of me, but the following sentences calmed my racing heart:

Quote:
Dune Buggies

Dune Buggies are light vehicles having oversized tires designed for recreational and highway use. Dune Buggies are not allowed to be titled and registered unless they meet certain standards set by the Kentucky Statutes. Owner/buyer will need a handwritten inspection on letterhead stating the dune buggy complies with Chapter 189 of the Kentucky Statutes.

The following KRS must be met for any vehicle to be operated on the highway:

* KRS 189.020- requires every vehicle be equipped as to make the minimum of noise, smoke or other nuisance
* KRS 189.040- requires every vehicle be equipped with at least two headlamps, ...
[snip...horn, brakes, glass, etc.]


So, I'm not sure where this Dune Buggy classification comes from, but I think it will all work out alright. I suspect this is an administrative program (as opposed to a statutory definition) set up to "do something" with the crazy car builders...most of which I guess build dune buggies?

But in the end, as long as I get a license plate, I really don't care what they call it or what forms they want me to fill out. We'll see in the next few weeks. A Lotus Seven, Baha Edition. Why not?

-dave "while I'm waiting, can you make me a banana?" hempy

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...nowadays people are so intellectually lazy and lethargic that they can't build ANYTHING with their hands. They'll spend hours watching whiny people marooned on an island, but won't spend a second adding anything to the world. -weconway
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PostPosted: August 23, 2009, 12:22 pm 
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Image

DANG! That was fast!!! Got it in the mail on the 23rd -- two days after the I filed the paperwork in Frankfort.

Now I have to wait ALL THE WAY until Monday :furious: to go down to my local county clerk and pick up the plate in person. I might bring a cordless drill and some pop rivets and get the second inspection right then and there! Not sure if I need insurance for that...

Not sure what to make of this whole "Dune Buggy" thing, but I can't say that I really give a rat's assets at this moment.

-dave "woo-freakin-hoo" hempy

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PostPosted: August 25, 2009, 6:20 pm 
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I just picked this up at the County Clerk's office:

Image

I called Frankfort earlier today. They said they could change the make/model of the car from Dune Buggy to something more fitting..."Locost Seven". 8)

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PostPosted: August 28, 2009, 5:02 pm 
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I drove my scooter down to the county clerk and asked for a Get Out of Jail Free card. It came off the same ditto pad the school nurse uses to get you out of class, I swear. It says that this car is on the way to an inspection and doesn't need tags, registration, etc. to be on the roads. He asked to see something with a VIN (title, application, insurance...anything) and what day I'd be traveling and gave me a one-day pass. I forget if it said anything about insurance, but I wasn't about to hit the road with out insurance anyway, even if they allowed it.

I was very disappointed that I was not pulled over on the way downtown. That *never* would have happened when I was in high school.

I spent about an hour with a very smart, helpful clerk. She flew through reams of paperwork like Superman and knew all the steps without calling Frankfort. We got the title changed from Dune-Freakin-Buggy to Locost Seven, too. The inspector looked at the VIN, odometer, and nothing else.

They took all my receipts, and said I would not get them back. I had heard this before, but found it hard to believe. I mean, I've got warranties and such on lots (okay, a few) of those parts. She was kind enough to make copies of the receipts for me. I bet other clerks would not, so I recommend that you make copies before heading downtown.

They credit you for any sales tax you show on the receipts. This saved me about $50. I recommend creating a spreadsheet listing all the receipts, with a separate column for KY tax paid, just to make the clerk's job easier. I left $130 poorer and one shit-eating grin richer. I guarantee you I'll still be smiling long after I would have had a C-note all spent up.

As I was leaving, she validated my parking ticket with a rubber stamp and validated three years of my life with a reflective piece of aluminum:

Image

No less than three dudes asked about the car before I got out of the garage. One even asked if it was a Cater-ham. I may get tired of the questions eventually, but it's a real treat for now.

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PostPosted: August 28, 2009, 7:51 pm 
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Seems like a lot of work with all the paperwork and running around you've had to do. You must feel relieved now that it is over. I'm happy for you.

Is that the real plate (tag)? NICE!

Chuck

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PostPosted: September 2, 2009, 9:14 am 
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Hi Dave, i hope you can answer a question for me...

I've been on the sidelines here for some time, scheming about a seven (kit form for me, probably westfield).
I've been following your registration saga, which is all the more relevant as i'm located in louisville right now but will be moving out of state in a few years... (and anticipate unknown state registration issues)

I'd like to known, from your experience with the KY registration process, whether at the end of the day (build), once you've filed all your forms in triplicate with the state (and been inspected, injected, detected, infected, neglected and selected): Does kentucky issue the paperwork and registration declaring the vehicle essentially whatever year/make you tell them it is?

Thanks
paul


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PostPosted: September 3, 2009, 11:26 am 
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Hi, Paul.

I've written quite a bit about my experience. I haven't embellished anything, but I'll admit to making it a bit more "literary" by rolling my eyes at the government and myself just to amuse you and me.

My honest opinion on the whole process is that it is entirely reasonable. It's not really that difficult, and it gets the job done. My biggest obstacle was just being intimidated and scared. If I finished a second car today, I'm confident I would have tags on the bumper two weeks from now...maybe a week if things went really well. I will encourage any Kentuckian wanting to do this to not hesitate at all.

I asked for and expected to get it registered as a "1957 Lotus Seven Replica," but they called it a "2009 Assembled Locost Seven." They'll put any make/model you want, but I think the "2009 Assembled" part is required.

I suspect there are ways to get the registration you want, but I just don't see the point. Google for "Lost title" and you'll find title mills that will create paperwork for any car you want.

HTH,
-dave

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PostPosted: September 4, 2009, 4:09 pm 
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Dave,

I like that license a LOT! I was thinking something along the lines of NTANMBR, but BCNU is excellent. Congrats!

John


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