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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: June 3, 2011, 8:44 am 
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Joined: August 18, 2007, 5:27 pm
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
STARMAN1 wrote:
I don't know if its different out here on the West Coast but according to the members of the Hot Rod Club that I belong to, I have to save all the receipts for all the components (to make sure the Government gets their tax) get a safety inspection, take everything to our Motor Vehicle Dept. get a Registration and insure it. Apparently no different than building a fiberglass 32 Ford coupe. By the way out here ists still registered as a 2011 ubuilt.


It's SUPPOSE to work that way here, but when you build a "kit" from scratch here the MTO (Our DMV) gets all confused since the chassis wasn't bought completed. It took me 4 tries at the MTO to get mine registered and the last one took 2 hours but finally they got it and agreed with me and all was good, I had to make a slight change in my affidavit about the build but it wasn't a big deal.

If you live in Ontario and built a kit from scratch, aka you build the WHOLE car, it's still a KIT but there are things you'll need to be sure you get right in the affidavit or it messes up MTO.

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: June 3, 2011, 10:24 am 
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Joined: August 16, 2010, 5:03 pm
Posts: 352
Location: Whitby, Ontario
I'm in Ontario too. This is the part I will be dreading the most and I haven't even got started yet. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: June 3, 2011, 10:46 am 
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Tom17 wrote:
I'm in Ontario too. This is the part I will be dreading the most and I haven't even got started yet. :(


Tom, are you building from scratch or using a true kit? If you're building from scratch the biggest thing is making sure that you list where you bought the "Chassis" the "Chassis" in a from scratch build is where you bought the metal and body panels - aka the raw steel/aluminum. The MTO office itself doesn't matter since they will ALL call Kingston (MTO Head office) for advice since they see these so infrequently. Do NOT accept "Home Built" as that means you will have to pass emissions and getting insurance will be more complicated. "KIT" is what you are after and don't take no for an answer. So long as you said you bought the "Chassis" at "ABC Metal Company" you should be fine - That was the part that tripped me over as I said I build it from raw steel and didn't list the company I bought the steel at in my affidavit - 2 hours with the MTO office and 90 minutes of discussions with the Kingston office while in the MTO office they finally understood what I had done wrong and had to register my car not as the "Brutus" I had mentioned in my affidavit but as a "Richmond" as I bought the metal for the chassis at "Richmond Steel" - So my car is a 2009 "Richmond" on my registration.

If I did it you can all do it. I'm getting my car plated this summer, just need to find insurance and pass safety. Granted I need to figure out why it's running like crap first. Can't wait to enjoy all 1600lbs and 350hp from my 355ci small block. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: June 4, 2011, 7:24 am 
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Joined: April 16, 2006, 8:48 am
Posts: 143
Location: Freelton, Ontario
Hi Paulmon

Mine is a +4 book build, the arches came from Curtis, the nose from COLD and the metal from Metal Supermarkets. I have faxed the head office with copies of the affidavit, receipts and definitions used on this website, OHCV Yahoo group and the MTO website - lets see what happens there.

If a lot of the issues were down to the wording, would it be possible to see a copy of your affidavit? Also which office did you use to get the VIN. I work in Mississauga so it may help to use the same office, and clerk if you still have their name.

Wipers and lower ball joints today :)

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: June 4, 2011, 8:17 am 
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Joined: August 18, 2007, 5:27 pm
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
locost_adam wrote:
Hi Paulmon

Mine is a +4 book build, the arches came from Curtis, the nose from COLD and the metal from Metal Supermarkets. I have faxed the head office with copies of the affidavit, receipts and definitions used on this website, OHCV Yahoo group and the MTO website - lets see what happens there.

If a lot of the issues were down to the wording, would it be possible to see a copy of your affidavit? Also which office did you use to get the VIN. I work in Mississauga so it may help to use the same office, and clerk if you still have their name.

Wipers and lower ball joints today :)

Cheers


So the secret with your build is saying the chassis was purchased at "Metal Supermarkets" - You're right the wording is EVERYTHING. I'm traveling on business this week, I'll scan my affidavit at the office when I'm back and post it here. In my case however they finally told me what was worded wrong and simply told me what they wanted it to say, I don't believe the affidavit was changed.

I didn't use MTO in Mississauga, my car is up north at my buddy's shop in Meaford so I used the MTO office in Meaford for my final try.

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: August 19, 2011, 12:53 pm 
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Joined: May 4, 2009, 9:12 am
Posts: 33
paulmon wrote:
locost_adam wrote:
Hi Paulmon

Mine is a +4 book build, the arches came from Curtis, the nose from COLD and the metal from Metal Supermarkets. I have faxed the head office with copies of the affidavit, receipts and definitions used on this website, OHCV Yahoo group and the MTO website - lets see what happens there.

If a lot of the issues were down to the wording, would it be possible to see a copy of your affidavit? Also which office did you use to get the VIN. I work in Mississauga so it may help to use the same office, and clerk if you still have their name.

Wipers and lower ball joints today :)

Cheers


So the secret with your build is saying the chassis was purchased at "Metal Supermarkets" - You're right the wording is EVERYTHING. I'm traveling on business this week, I'll scan my affidavit at the office when I'm back and post it here. In my case however they finally told me what was worded wrong and simply told me what they wanted it to say, I don't believe the affidavit was changed.

I didn't use MTO in Mississauga, my car is up north at my buddy's shop in Meaford so I used the MTO office in Meaford for my final try.


I am also in Ontario.... as it happens I live in Kingston. I would also love to see a copy of your affidavit

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: August 21, 2011, 7:22 pm 
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Joined: August 18, 2007, 5:27 pm
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Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Sorry guys, I'll try and remember to scan this at work this week and post it. My biggest issue now is insurance, I thought I had something liked up but they won't insure "home build" kit cars. *sigh*

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: August 24, 2011, 7:47 pm 
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Joined: August 15, 2007, 10:48 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Claremont,Ontario,Canada
Hi There

The only way to insure a new vehicle with an assigned VIN in ontario is through Facility Association. You will need a professional appraisal as well. Mine asked me how much I wanted mine appraised for knowing that The more its worth The more I'll pay. We settled at $27,000. Prices are OK if your driving record is good , but get terrible quick if not ( don't ask me how I Know).

Phil


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: September 17, 2012, 9:03 am 
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Joined: August 26, 2010, 10:23 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Brighton ON Canada
HI all,

This has been a very helpful discussion. I am looking to distil down a few things, especially as it pertains to e-test in Ontario.

I am part way through a build. It is a +442 design, to be powered by a 1971 MGB drive train. I have all receipts etc, especially for the steel so getting it registered is not going to be an issue. I hope ot have it done for next summer (2013)

If I was still driving my 71 B, I would not need an e-test in Ontario because of age. I don't think so anyway. I don't mind registering the car as a homebuilt because I can get all the paperwork....but reading through this thread (I might have missed it) but it doesn't seem clear as to whether or not an e-test is required.

Could someone offer some advice on this? The engine is slightly modified, does not smoke, but has no emission junk on it.

So...let me know what you think.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: September 17, 2012, 9:34 am 
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Joined: August 15, 2007, 10:48 pm
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Location: Claremont,Ontario,Canada
Hi

Yes "homebuilt" and "kit" are not the same . "Kit" is easier with registration, no e-test needed either. It doesn't matter that the donor car was built in 71. Your homebuilt or kit will be registered on the year the vin tag is issued.

Insurance is another matter

Phil


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: September 18, 2012, 7:11 am 
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Joined: April 16, 2006, 8:48 am
Posts: 143
Location: Freelton, Ontario
As I remember it a homebuild will need to pass emissions. That was the reason I went the "kit" option.

good luck


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: October 14, 2013, 8:59 am 
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Joined: January 8, 2012, 2:34 am
Posts: 285
Location: Niagara on the Lake Ontario Canada
...I know this is an older thread...however...my experience

I bought a Centaur 7 kit produced out of California in the 80's. It was build at some point before 1990 and registered in Ontario in 1991
At the time Ontario didn't have a Drive Clean (E Test program) and for some reason it was registered as a homebuilt.
It is powered by a Mazda 12A Rotary engine.
When I bought it the p/o was sort of nervous when he said it would have to be E tested....
I read everything i could find on MTO regs and Drive Clean regs... I was getting nervous because it had no emissions equip at all...and rotaries (later ones anyway) needed 4 Cats just to pass...
I found a place that would provide an E Test pass (the process has now changed and under the counter E Tests don't work...the car is connected directly to MTO computers along with video cameras covering the whole thing)
The guy doing the test didn't like the fact that my exhaust system was out in the open and the absence of a cat was visible... he wouldn't give it a certificate...BUT...decided to do the E test anyway....(gulp)...so it was hooked up to the computer and the VIN was sent to MTO along with a 'really' bad FAIL on the test.
At this point i started re-searching KIT status.
I found all the info on the company who provided the kit...an article in Kit Car magazine and had affidavits from a Kit Car Consultant in Ontario...
I took all the info in and the woman i dealt with was confused from the start...asked me what vehicle frame it had...(this kit is monoque and comes with all the body/frame parts). She called toronto and talked to an equally confuse woman.
She finally said to leave all the info i had gathered and she would send it off to Toronto and they would 'review' it...i would hear in 6 weeks or so....
About a week later I went back in and there was a different woman behind the counter...i asked if there was an update and she noted that the records showed that i had visited, but not the reason....
I went through it all again and showed her all the info...she said 'looks good to me' and called toronto and got a new VIN number.... it was registered as a K1T (can't be an I in the VIN number so it is K(one)T...
I was a happy camper when she handed me my plates.... no E Test necessary

Some things that were mentioned.... Homebuilt (HOM) is used only for trailers...or mainly for trailers
Not having a 'number' stamped to the kit anywhere was a stumbling point (make up one and put it somewhere on the body)
The fibreglass parts if from a manufacturer could be the Kit name...
Not having an actual frame was a problem...(at least to the first clerk)...you might use the front end components/rear end/steering as manufacturer)
If you fail at one place...go to another...

Anyway...that was my Ontario experience....

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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: November 24, 2013, 1:46 pm 
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Joined: February 19, 2007, 10:44 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Komoka, Ontario, Canada
Question for you guys - I read facility is only possible if you have been denied insurance and have evidence to support your denial. Is this true? One of the questions insurance companies ask is "have you ever been denied insurance." Presumably there are undesirable consequences.

Also, in registering a vehicle in Ontario, you need an affidavit, evidence showing the manufacturer and their country of origin, etc. and safety. Am I missing anything? How have you gone about obtaining your safety? I'm not clear whether bumpers and a windshield technically required?


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: November 24, 2013, 7:55 pm 
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Joined: August 15, 2007, 10:48 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Claremont,Ontario,Canada
As I understand it the reason Facility insurance is required is because the risk of the vehicle is unclassifiable. Nothing to do with the driver. What is it ? Its a Matolcsy Kit with an assigned vin. They are the only ones in Ontario who will touch it. If it was registered with an old vin as a car older than 25yrs then silver wheels etc could insure it. But the vin gets assigned as the year you register it.

phil


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 Post subject: Re: Ontario MTO Troubles
PostPosted: November 24, 2013, 8:46 pm 
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Joined: February 19, 2007, 10:44 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Komoka, Ontario, Canada
Thanks for the reply. I understand that the vehicle is the problem, but I just want to confirm that I will not run into issues in the future.


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