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PostPosted: June 16, 2016, 11:50 pm 
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I'm looking for modern ideas about attaching and protecting the fuel lines, brake lines, some wiring, and the positive battery cable within the transmission tunnel. Hopefully, there would be some ready-made products that I could purchase and install for those purposes. I'll be doing my final pass on the structure of my transmission tunnel and I'd like to make provision for those things now rather than some time later when it's much harder to do.

By design (more seating space) it is narrow. I'm thinking fuel and brake lines on lower left, battery cable lower right and wiring upper left in the photo below.
Attachment:
Narrow-Trans-Tunnel.JPG



I looked through both the Champion and Gibbs books, but don't care for the way they've done things. Fat copper fuel lines and brake tubing, and simple P-clips with all components unprotected near the driveshaft makes me a little nervous.

I have an EFI donor with high pressure fuel supply. It has a return line to the tank, but I'm not sure if it is high pressure as well. It would be nice to try and protect those lines from a failed U-joint or driveshaft.

Likewise, I'd like to supply some degree of protection to the brake lines too.

I figure the positive battery cable (I'm putting my battery at the rear) definitely needs some protection from chaffing and rubbing at minimum. Maybe a simple wrap in rubber or maybe even a high quality garden hose might do it?

What do racing organizations require (if anything) in such circumstances? Any affordable ideas would be welcome. I figure out ones that are way too expensive all on my own. :mrgreen:

Thanks in advance,

Lonnie


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

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PostPosted: June 17, 2016, 7:22 am 
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I have an EFI donor with high pressure fuel supply. It has a return line to the tank, but I'm not sure if it is high pressure as well.
FWIW, the return is usually open flow into the tank and thus low pressure. Not that you'd want it busted open by a driveshaft...

You might look at running the lines in conduit on the outside of the tunnel, along the base of the tunnel where it joins the floor. Would intrude a bit into the passenger space but it would be (mostly) under the seat. The sheet metal and frame of the tunnel itself would protect the lines.

SCCA requires, in some classes, that two driveshaft hoops enclose the driveshaft at or near the u-joints. Like this: https://www.lefthanderchassis.com/v2a/14_viewproduct_product.asp?idproduct=001917 If you bought/made something like that, you could run the lines in the corners of the square tunnel above the rounded top of the hoop. Maybe?

Not sure I've actually helped... :mrgreen:

:cheers:
JD

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PostPosted: June 17, 2016, 8:40 am 
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Lonnie,
I ran my fuel lines and brake lines at the top of the tunnel, and the electrical at the bottom. For the fuel and brake, I welded in some tabs with nut plates and used appropriate sized Adel clamps. My fuel lines are 3/8 aluminum with AN fittings. If I were to do it again, I would install the tabs with the nut plate facing down, and the lines running on top of the tab. Although the tunnel cover is removable, it is hard to get a screwdriver in and try to get the Adel clamp from the bottom; and they are a usual PITA to install anyway.
The wiring I put into a loom, and used nylon P clips and rivets to attach to the bottom rail. For your positive cable, I'd do the same, and go along the opposite side; with clips at each end, and a couple in between, I don't think there is much chance of chafing. But if you are concerned, use Adel clamps too; however, to get maximum grip, use them without a loom. They do work.
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PostPosted: June 17, 2016, 11:16 am 
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@GonzoRacer
@mgkluft

Thank you J.D. and Martin. There are indeed some good suggestions in both your posts.

Cheers,

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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

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PostPosted: June 17, 2016, 1:01 pm 
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I installed 1" square drive shaft hoops per SCCA spec. To mount the fuel lines brake line and wire, I took the stock Miata tabs with the plastic fuel line and brake line and welded them to the top of the drive shaft hoop. I also drilled a hole and welded a nut on one end for securing the wiring with a P clip. The wiring will be in a plastic loom. The drive shaft hoops will limit the flopping of a drive shaft should it break, and I don't see it being able to contact the lines or wiring enough to cause issues.

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PostPosted: June 17, 2016, 1:43 pm 
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Nothing's going to protect that stuff from a flailing driveshaft. How about running critical stuff (fuel and brake lines) through dedicated tubes outside the tunnel?

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PostPosted: June 17, 2016, 2:25 pm 
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KB58 wrote:
Nothing's going to protect that stuff from a flailing driveshaft. How about running critical stuff (fuel and brake lines) through dedicated tubes outside the tunnel?


That's the option I typically recommend. Run a nicely bent exhaust tube through the passenger footwell along trans tunnel and floor to run all the important stuff through. Thinwall is fine because it's a safe area. It will reduce passenger foot room so you will lose some of what you gained by having a small tunnel, but may be your safest option. Also, trailer wire is a good option to run to the rear on these cars. Can get enough wires nicely sheathed to operate the stuff in the back.

Cheers.

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PostPosted: June 19, 2016, 2:27 pm 
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KB58 wrote:
Nothing's going to protect that stuff from a flailing driveshaft. How about running critical stuff (fuel and brake lines) through dedicated tubes outside the tunnel?


@KB58
Hi Kurt,

I considered running the fuel and brake lines attached to the undertray completely unprotected at first. I'll have 6" of clearance, which is as much as many sport coupes like my Mustang donor or my wife's former Hyundai. Production cars do it all the time. I guess they figure the rocker panels provide enough protection for them; same with the fuel line.
Attachment:
Mustang-Fuel-&-Brake-Lines.jpg


Based on comments made by others I started to feel uneasy about their experiences. Your suggestion does seem like a viable option to me, provided the lines can't rub against the tubes containing them.

@C10CoryM
What is "trailer wire", Cory? I've never heard of it before.

Cheers,


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Damn! That front slip angle is way too large and the Ackerman is just a muddle.

Build Log: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5886


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PostPosted: June 19, 2016, 8:47 pm 
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If running them under the floor results in them being the lowest point on the car, someday the car will be driven over something that drags along the bottom. At best it misses, middle case is it crimps the lines closed, and worst case it involves flames. If it's not the lowest point then it'll probably be fine.

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PostPosted: June 19, 2016, 10:59 pm 
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I wouldn't worry too much about putting them in the tunnel. If you don't have driveshaft hoops and a ujoint fails catastrophically, you will have more important things to worry about than failed brake or fuel lines, and if you do have driveshaft hoops, just run your lines in the tunnel but outside of the hoops and they should be plenty protected. Besides, how often have you seen a driveshaft or ujoint fail catastrophically that wasn't due to hard launches on sticky tires?
Kristian

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PostPosted: June 19, 2016, 11:13 pm 
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turbo_bird wrote:
I wouldn't worry too much about putting them in the tunnel. If you don't have driveshaft hoops and a ujoint fails catastrophically, you will have more important things to worry about than failed brake or fuel lines, and if you do have driveshaft hoops, just run your lines in the tunnel but outside of the hoops and they should be plenty protected.


I agree, keep it simple, the lines and wire will be secure, no worries.

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PostPosted: June 19, 2016, 11:34 pm 
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One other thing that argues for putting them in the tunnel. Assuming the tunnel is rectangular with square corners, if the lines are tucked into the corners, a flailing driveshaft won't be able to contact them because the shaft is a large diameter tube.

"Having bigger things to worry about" to me would involve a fire, and if a fuel line gets bashed open, it could do just that. Just my opinion.

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PostPosted: June 19, 2016, 11:41 pm 
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Lonnie-S wrote:
provided the lines can't rub against the tubes containing them.


How about using a soft tube, like 1" id PVC, so that the tube will wear before the steel lines will? I'd also leave a "pulling string" in the tube so that additional, or replacement, wires/hoses/lines could easily be pulled through the tube.

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PostPosted: June 20, 2016, 8:41 am 
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It is only a short distance, I wouldn't worry about running a " pull " string. As for electrical. fuses should protect any issues there. I think the only things to worry about, that is if you are a worryer, is the fuel and the brake lines. Certainly hoops are the simplest solution IMO.

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PostPosted: June 20, 2016, 4:07 pm 
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Lonnie-S wrote:
@C10CoryM
What is "trailer wire", Cory?


It's just 14/7 (or 14/6 12/7) wire. Like this:
Image

Just makes for a tidy way to run protected wires, then strip and loom the wires where they need to go. 7 wires will run lights, fuel pump/sender. You can get more wires, but the 7-wire stuff is cheap because it's heavily used on trailers.

Cheers.

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