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PostPosted: March 27, 2007, 11:04 pm 
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Joined: December 22, 2006, 11:37 am
Posts: 30
Location: Orlando
Alright guys Ive been lurking around the site for a while gathering information on my upcoming build, hopefully to start sometime this summer. I am fortunate enough to live near Jim McSorley, and have talked to him in person in great length of what needs to be done for my locust project. There are several questions that have weighed heavily on my mind, important things that will determine the outcome of my build.
1.) I want to use and IRS, unfortunately Jim does not have any plans for a IRS compatible frame(pros and cons to building one myself?)
2.) What should I use as my donor car? cheap and effective ones ? (Miata, 240sx, etc)
3.) Forced induction?
4.) Japanese import motors (sr20det, rb26dett)
Basically I just want to build a street killer that will be known throughout the area, something that will stomp on rice and mullet sleds alike. Im a college student so I'd like to keep it reasonable. Hopefully someone has or is in the process of doing the same thing I'm trying to do.

*Admin edit*- I split this from Baldabe's post since It's seperatate topic.


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PostPosted: March 28, 2007, 4:47 am 
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Joined: January 24, 2007, 4:53 am
Posts: 6
Location: Bloomington, IN
From all the lurking I've been doing, here's what I've picked up...

1) IRS is more comfortable on the street, and more tunable, with the drawback that it takes a lot more planning and math. However, the new Book, due out next week, uses an IRS design that may either suit your needs just as well as the McSorley plans, or be easily adaptable to them. A compromise is a De Dion rear - the lower unsprung weight of IRS, but uses the same mounting points as the live axle.

2) Decide what your goal is for the car, and look for *anything* that fits. Regardless of whether your goal is 300+hp, or under $200, keeping your options as open as possible will help a ton. There are so many cars that work well as Locost donors, and no matter which one you choose, you'll end up sourcing plenty from other cars anyway. Miata seems to be the most "complete" single-car donor for the US market, with S-10 close behind. But I'm also keeping my eye out for pretty much anything with a Zetec, 4AGE, 60-degree V6, and so on - a compact, decently popular, easily RWD-able engine.

3) Forced Induction can be: Cheap, Reliable, Fast - Pick 2. There's no point if it's not fast, and cheap is a false economy if it breaks all the time, so really you're looking at a big chunk of change unless your donor is already turbo'd. You may very likely end up with more power for cheaper just by picking up a small-block chevy donor and building the car to fit it.

4) See 3. Imported motors cost a premium, have shipping costs added on, may have problems with your state's emissions laws, and finding parts to maintain, repair, or upgrade them could be a problem. If budget is at all a concern, stick to something common. It'll make the car go forwards just as well, but you'll be able to walk into Autozone and get anything you need for it, and throw keggers for the rest of your time in college with the money you saved.

Allow me to take this moment to caution you against street-racing. It's stupid and dangerous and a waste of a Locost. In any case, I personally feel that these cars are at their best on their own sliding through the twisties, or scything through the field on a track day at the local circuit. There's a lot more enjoyment to be had just taking them anywhere there's a corner than racing the kids in the car next to you from stoplight to stoplight on the local strip.

That said, if you have a good local legal racing scene, whether drag, autocross, or circuit, a well-sorted Locost will embarrass almost anything just by virtue of being about half the weight. An '07 Civic SI weighs ~2800lbs and has 200hp (and like, 3 ft-lbs of torque), a 4th-gen Camaro Z28 weighs 3400lbs with 300hp. Your little 1400lb Locost would only have to have 140hp to have a very healthy 1.3 pound per horsepower advantage over the Z28. Of course, other factors such as gearing and traction come into play, but you'll have a very solid base to start from no matter how you build your car.


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PostPosted: March 28, 2007, 10:43 am 
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Joined: December 22, 2006, 11:37 am
Posts: 30
Location: Orlando
As for street racing, the cops in my area are notorious for setting up speed traps, we have a drag strip not to far from my house that many tuners and f-bodies alike race at. Although ideally, I'd like to race it in the Mitty one day up in Atlanta or at some other race track- A weekend cruiser with Ferrari potential.
I've been leaning pretty hard towards the Miata, since that seems like the most cost effective and the easiest car to use to build the locust. The biggest problem is that I have access to a welder and all the tubing I could ever want, but no jig to weld the frame in, so unfortunately it looks like I will have to purchase a frame from COLD or Wharton Industries, in Cocoa not to far from UCF. Either way, I would like to know the name of this book that you had mentioned.
I appreciate you guys helping me out, and I continue my search for my perfect locust.

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PostPosted: March 28, 2007, 11:17 am 
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Joined: August 15, 2005, 10:13 pm
Posts: 7043
Location: Charleston, WV
TRDdave wrote:
As for street racing, the cops in my area are notorious for setting up speed traps, we have a drag strip not to far from my house that many tuners and f-bodies alike race at. Although ideally, I'd like to race it in the Mitty one day up in Atlanta or at some other race track- A weekend cruiser with Ferrari potential.
I've been leaning pretty hard towards the Miata, since that seems like the most cost effective and the easiest car to use to build the locust. The biggest problem is that I have access to a welder and all the tubing I could ever want, but no jig to weld the frame in, so unfortunately it looks like I will have to purchase a frame from COLD or Wharton Industries, in Cocoa not to far from UCF. Either way, I would like to know the name of this book that you had mentioned.
I appreciate you guys helping me out, and I continue my search for my perfect locust.



A "Locust" is made out of plywood. You are interested in a "Locost". :)

As for a jig, you don't need one. The frames are built on contraptions called "build tables." Read through some of the builders logs and you can get a feel for what kind of effort/techniques go into building a frame. You may still want to buy one rather than build it.

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PostPosted: March 29, 2007, 1:30 pm 
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Joined: January 24, 2007, 4:53 am
Posts: 6
Location: Bloomington, IN
TRDdave wrote:
Either way, I would like to know the name of this book that you had mentioned.


"The Book", as you will see people refer to it, is Ron Champion's "Build Your Own Sports Car For Less Than £250". It's the book that kicked off the Locost craze, and most of the plans out there are variations of this frame, called the "book chassis". The main problem is it used cars not available or rare here in the US.

The new version, by Chris Gibbs (the slightly more realistically-titled "Build Your Own Sports Car On A Budget") should be available in the next week or so, has an IRS design, and while it's based off a Ford Sierra, it is written with other possible donors - including the Miata - in mind as well. Additionally, from what I've seen here, it looks to have some very nice instructions for building your own jigs for some of the more difficult and critical parts of the design, such as getting the suspension brackets perfectly placed on both sides. I would call it required reading for a Locost project. Amazon link

Don't forget Keith Tanner's book "How To Build A Cheap Sports Car" also, which is extremely useful for all the bits beyond the frame itself (since he "cheated" and bought that :P) - Amazon link


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 Post subject: Re: Getting started
PostPosted: March 29, 2007, 3:35 pm 
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Joined: January 14, 2006, 1:06 pm
Posts: 813
Location: Vista (north of San Diego CA)
TRDdave wrote:
1.) I want to use and IRS, unfortunately Jim does not have any plans for a IRS compatible frame(pros and cons to building one myself?)
2.) What should I use as my donor car? cheap and effective ones ? (Miata, 240sx, etc)
3.) Forced induction?
4.) Japanese import motors (sr20det, rb26dett)
Basically I just want to build a street killer that will be known throughout the area, something that will stomp on rice and mullet sleds alike.


Dave,
First you need to get serious about what you really want. Looks like a lot of question marks and conflicting desires. Also, don't underestimate the amount of work that this will require. (You will anyway, but I had to say it.) Building a car is a real challenge. Doing it while in college is a bigger challenge.

If you want a wild street machine on a budget, go with the live axle and a little V6. Cheap, simple, easily more power than God intended for such a lightweight car. If you want a track star, the design work gets involved (yeah, you thought the book took care of that, right?) and the price heads skyward.

So first, decide what you really want, then start choosing parts.

John


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PostPosted: April 1, 2007, 1:51 pm 
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Joined: December 22, 2006, 11:37 am
Posts: 30
Location: Orlando
Thanks guys for all the great input. I have Keiths and Ron's book and they have been a big help to me, and so has being able to pull on the knowledge base from many people. As far as under estimating the amount of work it'll take isn't an issue, Ive been in the garage rebuilding V8's, and restoring mustangs since I was 14. Its a work of passion, I love building. For the most part, Im trying to get an idea of what worked for people, and more importantly what to steer clear of.

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