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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: July 9, 2019, 9:18 am 
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Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
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Rocan wrote:
You guys have me thinking...

I bought my Manx already registered special construction, with plates and clean title etc. It's registered as a 1963 special construction, the year of the VW floorpan. It had a VW Engine installed, no clue if the engine serial is on the title- I'd have to double check when I get home. I've since torn out just about all the running gear to install a Honda V6. Do I have to go back to CHP to have them change the title to match the new motor? I wasn't planning on it... I figure since it's been through the process and already been placed in the DMV system I'm free to do whatever.

No, the drivetrain VIN number physically appears on the engine and transmission case somewhere, that's the only number they care about. Also, I'm pretty sure that the whole VIN tag thing didn't start until later, so if you have an actual 1960's drivetrain, there's probably nothing on it, so don't worry about it in that case.

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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: July 9, 2019, 2:41 pm 
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Joined: December 6, 2017, 2:20 pm
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Location: San Jose, California
How complete did your car have to be to start this process? I am getting close to my build. I just dont want to be finished and unable to drive it!!


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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: August 23, 2019, 3:40 pm 
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Joined: July 4, 2006, 5:40 pm
Posts: 1986
Location: Novato, CA
It needs to be trailerable. The procedure now (well, 2014) is VIN first, then SB100 certificate. To get a VIN, you need to have a chassis that the CHP can attach it to.

This is a change from the early years when you could get an SB100 certificate with nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: January 26, 2020, 7:08 am 
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Joined: June 28, 2019, 7:54 pm
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Does anyone know the answer to this question?

If the engine and trans originally did not have a VIN stamp, how does the CHP treat this case? How does the CHP know if it should have one versus if it was removed?

I ask because I tried looking up specifically for rotary engines where the VIN is, and it seems like there isn't any stamped on the engine or transmission for a lot of them.

I am able to get the donor car's title however with the VIN on it. So I'm wondering if that will be enough if the engine and trans does not have a VIN.

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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: January 26, 2020, 10:15 am 
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Joined: July 17, 2008, 9:11 am
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Location: West Chicago,IL
On my 13B engine ('91 RX-7) there is a serial number on the front iron. That IS the engine's number, not the car's VIN or any part of it. If the car was not salvaged, Mazda North America can tell you the engine number that was in the car based on the VIN. If the car was salvaged, they purge their records and cannot help. I never found a number on the trans.

When I went to register my car in Illinois, I needed the same info. My car was hand-stamped poorly. I could not make out if some of the digits were"3"or "8" or "9". The car was salvaged and Mazda could not help me. Could not even do a reverse search to see if my engine was originally in a different vehicle, as so many of them were. I wrote a letter to my state explaining the research I did and the answers I got. It seemed to be enough to satisfy my state's DMV.


I can't say what Cali will do for you or allow. Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: January 26, 2020, 2:13 pm 
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Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
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Location: SoCal
Also keep in mind that the rules are always subject to change. Any advice you get here from people who've been through the process, may - or may not - be feeding you accurate current facts. It's been 7 years since my process, so I'm reluctant to say what is and isn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: January 26, 2020, 5:03 pm 
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rx7locost wrote:
On my 13B engine ('91 RX-7) there is a serial number on the front iron. That IS the engine's number, not the car's VIN or any part of it. If the car was not salvaged, Mazda North America can tell you the engine number that was in the car based on the VIN. If the car was salvaged, they purge their records and cannot help. I never found a number on the trans.

When I went to register my car in Illinois, I needed the same info. My car was hand-stamped poorly. I could not make out if some of the digits were"3"or "8" or "9". The car was salvaged and Mazda could not help me. Could not even do a reverse search to see if my engine was originally in a different vehicle, as so many of them were. I wrote a letter to my state explaining the research I did and the answers I got. It seemed to be enough to satisfy my state's DMV.


I can't say what Cali will do for you or allow. Good luck.


Thanks you're right it looks like the engine number is stamped on the front cover.


I'm going to have to call chp directly and ask them what they do in cases where the engine or transmission don't have numbers

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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: January 26, 2020, 5:19 pm 
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Joined: June 20, 2019, 12:34 pm
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The problem with this is that older engines and transmissions did not always have the VIN stamped on them. Many times they had a tag attached. Perfect example is with my build- the 74 MGB has a plate riveted to the block. Several sites will supply you a new blank plate and rivets(Moss Motors) Mine is damaged- a break in the middle and it is made of aluminium. If the block is hot tanked, it will melt away. So you must remove and re-attach it. The MGB trans does not have any serial number that I can find.

In the case of Mustang T5 transmissions, they come with an aluminium tag attached by one of the bolts on the joining housings. So you could switch a tag from one trans to another. Early SBF engine blocks also do not have a serial number (I have a 69 F150 PU 302 block that I salvaged out of my son's totaled truck years ago) that has a casting number but no serial numbers that I am aware of. So I cannot use it for a "kit car" because it was a replacement motor in his 64 Ford truck which was originally built as a 352 motored truck.

In the case of my MGB motor and trans, I have a bill of sale with the VIN of the original car, SN of the motor plate along with a copy of the title to prove where they came from.

Understand what the concern is by govt but do they forget they are our employees?

Thom


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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: January 26, 2020, 5:22 pm 
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BostonWill wrote:
The problem with this is that older engines and transmissions did not always have the VIN stamped on them. Many times they had a tag attached. Perfect example is with my build- the 74 MGB has a plate riveted to the block. Several sites will supply you a new blank plate and rivets(Moss Motors) Mine is damaged- a break in the middle and it is made of aluminium. If the block is hot tanked, it will melt away. So you must remove and re-attach it. The MGB trans does not have any serial number that I can find.

In the case of Mustang T5 transmissions, they come with an aluminium tag attached by one of the bolts on the joining housings. So you could switch a tag from one trans to another. Early SBF engine blocks also do not have a serial number (I have a 69 F150 PU 302 block that I salvaged out of my son's totaled truck years ago) that has a casting number but no serial numbers that I am aware of. So I cannot use it for a "kit car" because it was a replacement motor in his 64 Ford truck which was originally built as a 352 motored truck.

In the case of my MGB motor and trans, I have a bill of sale with the VIN of the original car, SN of the motor plate along with a copy of the title to prove where they came from.

Understand what the concern is by govt but do they forget they are our employees?

Thom

I just find it hard to believe that the CHP officer will know all the nuanced differences between engines and car makes. There must be situations where the car has no engine and transmission stamps. I will call and ask

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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: January 28, 2020, 1:05 pm 
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Joined: October 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
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Location: Carlsbad, California, USA
pancake wrote:
. . .
I just find it hard to believe that the CHP officer will know all the nuanced differences between engines and car makes. There must be situations where the car has no engine and transmission stamps. I will call and ask


If you do get a clear answer, please post it. I've started the SB100 process, but not gone through the inspections. In my case, Ford had a decal that went on the engine valve covers with all the SN and other SMOG information. It fell off long ago before I bought the donor vehicle. Supposedly, the engine has the serial number on the back of the block on a machined flat. I found the flat, but the letters/numbers there are unreadable, so useless for inspection purposes. So, I'm a little concerned about getting through the process.

Cheers,

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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: January 28, 2020, 8:31 pm 
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Joined: February 8, 2014, 10:47 pm
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Location: Cornholio OR "Where the magic happens"
The receipt for the motor and trans should do?

Emissions compliance is not enforced by CHP that is CARB.

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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: January 28, 2020, 9:07 pm 
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Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
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Back when I did it, all the CHP cared about was finding the VIN tags on both the transmission and engine so that they could confirm that they weren't stolen.

AND...

They said that they absolutely had to see the receipt for the steel I used to build the frame. The reason was to ensure that it really was built and not a heavily converted street car shell.

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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: January 28, 2020, 9:52 pm 
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Location: Cornholio OR "Where the magic happens"
I tool them receipts inked out on bar napkins.. :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: January 28, 2020, 10:28 pm 
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KB58 wrote:
Back when I did it, all the CHP cared about was finding the VIN tags on both the transmission and engine so that they could confirm that they weren't stolen.

AND...

They said that they absolutely had to see the receipt for the steel I used to build the frame. The reason was to ensure that it really was built and not a heavily converted street car shell.


I think showing them the pictures would suffice? I mean factory five kits and other kits that have frames that are sold ready made go thru the same process?

But that's weird ... Maybe it depends on the officer

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 Post subject: Re: Cali & SB100
PostPosted: January 29, 2020, 4:47 pm 
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UPDATE:

Ok, I spoke to the CHP Office in Santa Fe Springs and with the officer directly that handles this inspection. He was very knowledgeable actually, and he knew all the kit car manufacturers, was familiar with the process from beginning to end, and can confidently say I trust what he said. After all, he's the one that will be inspecting the car actually.

- Appointment will take about 1-1.5 hours. Recommends I drop it off as he will be updating paperwork to the DMV real-time and sometimes it takes a while.
- Will have to fill out 2 forms:
1) Statement of Facts - I bought this frame for $xxxx from so-so, bought the engine and did this. Explains the work history and build
2) Statement of Construction - basically an itemized receipt of all the major components. He said major, hes not interested in pricing of nuts and bolts and wires and small things. So square tubing $800, engine from xyz shop for $2000, etc. etc.

In the case that you do not have an engine serial stamped because the mill or machining work, (which he actually brought up so he already expected this) then you need to have at least some form of documentation of how much you paid. And if you lie and say you got a LS7 for $2000 he will know you're lying.

But he recommended that you take the time to at least try to get the VIN or Serial before it gets machined and take a picture, receipts, document, etc. if you are doing it. If you already bought it machined and new, get a receipt or documentation if you can. Or if you're using OfferUp or ebay, you can print the page. But something that indicates how much you bought it for as that's needed for the total taxes and so forth.

If you buy a roller or unfinished frame, etc. just get a bill of sale or once again, take a screenshot or document how much you paid, etc


Last tip given, once you get the VIN from CHP, try to replicate the VIN in other places in case your build gets stolen. Put it on body panels or wherever you feel like so that if they recover the car they can look and ID your car. I imagine this is important esp if your building a kit car that costs a ton of money.



The key takeaway here is, there is some human judgement here when it comes to the inspection. The process for paperwork is set but the officer who is inspecting and his level of knowledge will dictate how everything goes but you should have zero issues if you just take the time to record your build and the costs associated in a binder or something.

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