LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently January 28, 2023, 12:59 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 136 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 10  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 26, 2008, 4:05 am 
Offline
Locostering Information Liaison
User avatar

Joined: August 17, 2005, 1:30 am
Posts: 2397
Location: So CALIFORNIA
The steel guy near me was telling me his rates keep changing due to a US tariff on Chinese steel. His rates have climbed 20% in the past month..I am not sure if I should start looking for another company to verify rates....has anyone else heard anything similar?

_________________
I'll keep an eye out for you!

To err is human...
I am more human than most.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 26, 2008, 8:03 am 
Offline
Automotive Encyclopedia
User avatar

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 7680
An all-encompassing article on steel, past, present and future, written in 2006:

http://www.freetrade.org/node/545

I would still price shop.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R ('70s mazda pickup)
http://www.vsusp.com
ford IFS cheap viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Frame L x cockpit W x eng bay HT (w/o hood/bonnet/cowl)
Lotus Super Seven: 115 (no spare) x39x7.25
Tiger Avon: 114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion (Book): 114x42x11
Gibbs Haynes: 122x42x14
VoDou: 113x44x14
McSorley “442”122x46x14
Collins “241” 127x46x12


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 25, 2008, 5:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: July 12, 2008, 10:58 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Just made an incredible find today. There is a steel tubing manufacturer in Beltsville, MD and they sold me 1x1" 0.065" Wall 1020 CRS for $0.50 a foot. They actually gave me a 3/4" round tube for dirt cheap as well and let me grab some more scrap for free. It broke down to this:

6x 24ft of 1" Square @ $0.50/ft
1x 20ft of 3/4" Round @ $0.40/ft
1x 20ft of 3/4" Round from scrap pile for free
1x 20ft of 3/4" Square from scrap pile for free

I'm only using the 3/4" square tube for the rear and small sections that need to be triangulated. The transmission tunnel and large areas needing triangulation are going to use 1" square. If I do all the additional bracing mentioned in part two of the famous thesis, will I have enough 1x1? Thanks.

Steven


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 25, 2008, 8:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: August 15, 2005, 10:13 pm
Posts: 7043
Location: Charleston, WV
You should be good to go. I tried to triangulate everything with 3/4".

Oh and at first glance of your user name I thought you were a Marxist. :P

_________________
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 26, 2008, 3:52 am 
Offline
Man of Constant Hazard
User avatar

Joined: February 20, 2006, 11:18 am
Posts: 3185
Location: Lexington, KY
socalismylife wrote:
The transmission tunnel and large areas needing triangulation are going to use 1" square.


Consider using round for the top rails of the tunnel. Immensely more comfortable for the forearms and calves.

-dave

_________________
...nowadays people are so intellectually lazy and lethargic that they can't build ANYTHING with their hands. They'll spend hours watching whiny people marooned on an island, but won't spend a second adding anything to the world. -weconway
Visit my [Locost 7 build log]


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 26, 2008, 8:08 am 
Offline

Joined: August 15, 2005, 10:13 pm
Posts: 7043
Location: Charleston, WV
dhempy wrote:
socalismylife wrote:
The transmission tunnel and large areas needing triangulation are going to use 1" square.


Consider using round for the top rails of the tunnel. Immensely more comfortable for the forearms and calves.

-dave

Amen to that. Hempy is definitely onto something there. (see sore leg posts in racing section :wink: ) It will also help to not make it any taller than you need to. I wish mine was 1" shorter and I used round tube.

_________________
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 27, 2008, 9:08 am 
Offline
Automotive Encyclopedia
User avatar

Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 7680
I purchased the following this week in Georgia. I bought the thinnest materials and sizes in stock which were closest to what I was looking for. I didn't buy any DOM, but I did buy some round tube. I already have a lot of other steel. This is not a locost required material list:

RD TUBE 1/2" X 16 GA, $.065/foot
RD TUBE 1 X 14 GA, 1.10
RHS 1 X 16 GA, .097

FLAT .125" THICK:
1/2, .20
3/4, .25
1, .45
2, .85
3, 1.25

ANGLE 1" X .125, .75
RD SOLID ROD, 5/16, .40

I bought 3 sticks of each (except for the angle and solid rod) at 22 to 30 feet per stick.

The flat is cheap. It is great for flanges, mounting tabs, and gussets. Having many different widths minimizes cutting/fitting or having to weld narrower bits together. The solid rod is good for exhaust support hangers on rubber loops.

It makes a big difference in price to buy the common stuff versus an extra thin wall or less common od. The DOM was $2.65/foot for 1"x 14 GA.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 6, 2008, 3:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: August 6, 2008, 9:40 am
Posts: 532
Location: Greenville/Charlotte NC
I'm having a tough time in charlotte trying to find steel for cheap. Best I have found:

1" 16ga square tubing = $1.04/ft
1" OD .120 wall round tubing = $3.42/ft
1.5" OD .120 wall round tubing = $4.33/ft
48"x96" 16ga sheet = $108

Just curious, how much steel did you guys use for your suspension? I'm having a tough time figuring out how much I'll need. The rear will be IRS using the tubing and the tubing comes in 24ft sticks

The 1.5" is for the roll cage, but again I'm having a hard time figuring out how much I'll need. How much steel do you think is in this cage?

Also, is 16ga too thick for flooring and firewall use? Do you think 18ga would be a better choice?


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
+442E, SR20det, Thunderbird/Markviii IRS with clutch lsd, R1 suspension all around, Mustang II 2" drop spindles, Woodward steering rack


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 6, 2008, 3:56 pm 
Offline
Weight watcher
User avatar

Joined: March 7, 2006, 6:15 pm
Posts: 2394
Location: Northridge, CA
I believe I ordered 85 ft of tubing for my roll cage which should be just about enough (Its missing the two rear legs but I have a little bit left).

BTW, my cage uses 1.5"x0.095" tubing and it's perfectly legal for racing with NASA and I believe SCCA too.
Pics are in the 5th page of my build log.

Moti

_________________
Moti

My R1 powered Locost build log

Visit the Blackbird Fabworx Facebook Page!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 6, 2008, 4:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: August 6, 2008, 9:40 am
Posts: 532
Location: Greenville/Charlotte NC
I should have been more specific, would 24ft of the 1.5" tubing be good for just the hoop and 2 supports like in the roll bar above?

Also, is 24ft of the 1" enough to do all 8 wishbones?

_________________
+442E, SR20det, Thunderbird/Markviii IRS with clutch lsd, R1 suspension all around, Mustang II 2" drop spindles, Woodward steering rack


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 6, 2008, 5:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: August 15, 2005, 10:13 pm
Posts: 7043
Location: Charleston, WV
killernoodle wrote:
I should have been more specific, would 24ft of the 1.5" tubing be good for just the hoop and 2 supports like in the roll bar above?

Also, is 24ft of the 1" enough to do all 8 wishbones?

Should be with some to spare.Why the uber thick tubing? That stuff is twice the thickness I used on my wishbones and like Moti's my 1.5" roll bar tubing is .095" DOM. If you want to do track days and such you might want to consider going with DOM instead of ERW. Most sanctioning bodies require it.

_________________
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 6, 2008, 7:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: August 6, 2008, 9:40 am
Posts: 532
Location: Greenville/Charlotte NC
The round tubing is all DOM. I'm considering 1 1/4" for the suspension with a .120 wall, I want this car to be solid, even over potholes and stuff. Its going to have 350+ horsepower as well. Is there a need for thick wall tubing on the street? I'm under the impression that 1" .095 wall is pretty flimsy stuff.

So 24' of suspension and 24' of roll bar should be sufficient?

_________________
+442E, SR20det, Thunderbird/Markviii IRS with clutch lsd, R1 suspension all around, Mustang II 2" drop spindles, Woodward steering rack


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 6, 2008, 9:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: August 15, 2005, 10:13 pm
Posts: 7043
Location: Charleston, WV
killernoodle wrote:
The round tubing is all DOM. I'm considering 1 1/4" for the suspension with a .120 wall, I want this car to be solid, even over potholes and stuff. Its going to have 350+ horsepower as well. Is there a need for thick wall tubing on the street? I'm under the impression that 1" .095 wall is pretty flimsy stuff.

So 24' of suspension and 24' of roll bar should be sufficient?


Flimsy? Really? Well you must find it simply horrifying to know that the "book" locost arms are 3/4" x .06" ERW. Lots of those cars have been driving around the UK without failures. (but it seems like I do recall seeing some pics of failures)

I used 1" x .06" DOM and it has hit plenty of potholes and survived so far, noteworthy considering it is 30% thinner walled than what you consider flimsy. I think it all comes down to how good of a job you do designing the arms themselves. Load them properly and you can get by with much thinner tubing. Your 1/8" thick walled A arms will likely bend your frame tubes before deforming should you be unlucky enough to hit something. I'd rather build another pair of A arms than try to fix a bent frame. But to each his own as they say. Everyone has different opinions of what works, that's why you'll never see two homebuilts just exactly alike.

So yeah, you have plenty of tubing. Are you going to just tap that tube and thread the heims into it, being that thick you may have trouble finding "weld in" bungs to fit it. (for a decent sized rod end anyway)

_________________
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 6, 2008, 10:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: August 6, 2008, 9:40 am
Posts: 532
Location: Greenville/Charlotte NC
Yeah, I saw that, but then I saw the pic of the car with the lower wishbone folded in half.

So 1" x .095" wall is strong enough to resist some potholes and speedbumps? This car will be a 442E with a 350hp SR20det in it, I'm not sure if that makes a difference either. I'll be using r6 shocks actuated directly, where it mounts to the lower wishbone will be as close to the ball joint as possible and I'll make an extension to where it meets the frame. Because of the strong spring and dampening action of the bike shocks, they will be situated at a much shallower angle than book to decrease the spring rate at the wheel and increase travel.

I'm thinking this will put a lot of tension loads on the lower arms.

_________________
+442E, SR20det, Thunderbird/Markviii IRS with clutch lsd, R1 suspension all around, Mustang II 2" drop spindles, Woodward steering rack


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 6, 2008, 11:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: August 15, 2005, 10:13 pm
Posts: 7043
Location: Charleston, WV
killernoodle wrote:
Yeah, I saw that, but then I saw the pic of the car with the lower wishbone folded in half.

So 1" x .095" wall is strong enough to resist some potholes and speedbumps? This car will be a 442E with a 350hp SR20det in it, I'm not sure if that makes a difference either. I'll be using r6 shocks actuated directly, where it mounts to the lower wishbone will be as close to the ball joint as possible and I'll make an extension to where it meets the frame. Because of the strong spring and dampening action of the bike shocks, they will be situated at a much shallower angle than book to decrease the spring rate at the wheel and increase travel.

I'm thinking this will put a lot of tension loads on the lower arms.


I would hope so. Mine are 30% thinner than that and do fine, as stated previously. I don't think HP has a whole lot to do with how thick your A arm tubing needs to be. I think it all comes down to how you load it. Bike shocks will make it tricky. Unless you are using a pushrod system you are going to have a hard time getting a proper wheel rate with those. (for a good example look at Datz510's build log)The alternative is to mount them like JR did, at a mechanical disadvantage about 1/2 way up the A arm. In which case you'll need every bit of that 1/8" walled tubing.

As for tension loads don't worry about those. I can't imagine you generating enough tension to cause a 3/4" .06" tube to fail. You would pull your rod end out or something before the tube would pull in half.

_________________
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but rejoices for those which he has.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 136 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 10  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
POWERED_BY