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 Post subject: Time for an engine swap
PostPosted: September 21, 2019, 3:29 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada
The 7 is finished, new paint is done, and we've been tearing up the roads. So what now?

I've never been particularly happy with the Ford 1600CVH currently powering the Westy. And with very few hop-up parts out there for this particular engine, I'm thinking that an engine swap might be in order.

From reading various UK sites, I believe the easiest swap is a Zetec engine mated to my existing T9 5-speed gearbox.

Has anyone here done this type of swap? Is it as easy as suggested. Any worries or concerns?

There are lots of Zetec's on this side of the pond, so locating a donor car will be pretty easy.


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PostPosted: September 22, 2019, 6:39 am 
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Nothing is ever as easy as it seems. I suggest you collect all the parts you think you need and do everything you can to prep before pulling it off the road. It may be parked a long time. There is a lot to be said for what you have now.

Should be able to reuse the bell, flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, and shim plate on the zetec block. This solves a lot of potential problems I won’t go into. The starters are interchangeable so you might as well get that too as I’m sure it will be lighter with more torque.

Need a new manifold to fit the webers and a standalone ignition advance control (ESC) for the edis4 coilpack. There were some early ford fiestas overseas that had a carb and edis.
The belt drive length, direction, and tensioning will need to be sorted out depending on the engine used. There are cw and ccw pumps mounted to the block or the cover depending on year model.
The zetec oil pan is designed for reasonable cornering loads when the engine is mounted sideways for fwd. There are one piece and two piece pans depending on the year model. Aftermarket pans and pickups are available for rwd applications.

It is possible to get 2.0l under the 1.6 head but it is a lot of work/machining.

You might be able to use a 04 and older focus “split port” 2.0l long block with a new manifold and the 1.6 dizzy may fit or you might be able to use the 2.0l block with your head (the easiest upgrade if it fits) but I don’t know what the compression would be off the top of my head. It usually better to use a complete long block and then deal with the ignition and fuel needs than to mix match head and block if it hasn’t been well documented.

http://www.quantums.info/zvh.htm

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PostPosted: September 22, 2019, 10:56 am 
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Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada
Oh my....that is certainly more complex than the few forum posts I've read suggested...I was hoping I could just drop in a Zetec and be on my way.

As the Westy doesn't warrant this level of investment (both time and $$), I think I'll just look into ways of bringing my CVH to life.

Perhaps a more lively cam is in order?

I'm not sure if I have the lean-burn or hemi style head. It's a 1988(edit) engine build s/n 88SM6090 1.6L. Online resources suggest that the only way to be sure is to pull the head. Again I'm not sure if that matters when selecting an appropriate cam for this engine.

I have been unable to find any parts supplier for this engine on this side of the pond requiring me to source all my parts from the UK (Burton Power). Starts to get a little pricey with shipping and all.

Thanks for the heads-up and the link to your build......an excellent resource.


Last edited by Trog on September 22, 2019, 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: September 22, 2019, 12:36 pm 
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The link is to someone else’s build. I would not go to that much trouble with so many other engines out there.

As for tuning what you have, I’d set the timing to 10btdc if it doesn’t knock on hills with premium, remove one of the mechanical advance springs from the distributor for better mid-range throttle response, connect the vacuum advance for efficiency if it causes no drive ability issues and limit it to 6-10 degrees, check full timing is at 30-34 deg by 3000 rpm, and replace the oil filled ignition coil with a standard epoxy box coil from something like a mid 90s chevy for $10, then open the plug gaps .020” more than specified. The plug wires appear to be inductive suppression for a low voltage drop per foot so those are good and should last without breaking down like cheap carbon core.

You have not said exactly what it is you want to improve. Mid range torque? Top end? Off idle?

What is the axle ratio? A ratio change can make a big difference in how responsive the engine is in each gear. I would expect to see around 4:1 or numerically higher for this. You might also run thinner oil such as 5w30 if your oil pressure is good hot and duct the air intake through louvers in the side of the bonnet for cooler air.

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PostPosted: September 22, 2019, 1:49 pm 
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Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
The link is to someone else’s build. I would not go to that much trouble with so many other engines out there.

As for tuning what you have, I’d set the timing to 10btdc if it doesn’t knock on hills with premium, remove one of the mechanical advance springs from the distributor for better mid-range throttle response, connect the vacuum advance for efficiency if it causes no drive ability issues and limit it to 6-10 degrees, check full timing is at 30-34 deg by 3000 rpm, and replace the oil filled ignition coil with a standard epoxy box coil from something like a mid 90s chevy for $10, then open the plug gaps .020” more than specified. The plug wires appear to be inductive suppression for a low voltage drop per foot so those are good and should last without breaking down like cheap carbon core.

You have not said exactly what it is you want to improve. Mid range torque? Top end? Off idle?

What is the axle ratio? A ratio change can make a big difference in how responsive the engine is in each gear. I would expect to see around 4:1 or numerically higher for this. You might also run thinner oil such as 5w30 if your oil pressure is good hot and duct the air intake through louvers in the side of the bonnet for cooler air.


There's lots to digest here......but here goes:

1- Timing. The timing is currently set to 10btdc and it runs fine on premium. I'll open up the dist and see about pulling a spring.
2- Coil: Good idea. The coil in place is original and perhaps due for replacement anyway
3- Vacuum advance. I had a look at that and there doesn't appear to be any logical place to connect the line. I could drill/tap the intake, however if I recall, the line is typically connected to the carb. These Webers don't appear to have a distributer bung?
4- Power. I need to beef up the midrange, and extend the top end. The engine currently runs out of poop at 5000RPM
5-Axle: Don't know about the axle ratio...I'll look into it.
6-Oil: Less viscous oil is a good idea. Oil pressure is fine, so I'm confident I can use 5w30...down from the 20w50 originally specified.
7- Air Intake: Bonnet is already set up for cool air induction.


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PostPosted: September 22, 2019, 3:49 pm 
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It would require drilling a hole in each port just above the butterfly to press in vacuum tubes. All the tubes would be tee’d together as a manifold with a port in the middle for the advance.

Since your issue is high rpm, an edis would be better to eliminate spark scatter in the dizzy at the rotor and dial in load sensing advance instead of just rpm based which is what you have now. You’d need an edis4, an aftermarket tunable controller for adjustment, map sensor, crank pulley toothed wheel (36 tooth?) and a sensor to pickup the wheel teeth. A kit would be best if you don’t want to spend a lot of time tinkering. When if the cvh fails, you will be that much closer to a zetec.

The header design may not be optimal. There should be online calculators for determining best dimensions. The primary tubes should be equal length or you could build a tri-y (3 collector) design for more midrange torque. The collector(s) should be long with a gentle taper transition. The header should be ceramic coated on the outside to keep from heating the air in the compartment and on the inside to keep from overheating the tube. Thicker tubing is heavier but longer lasting. Silica fabric wrap holds in heat well but overheats the header tubing.

I’d also look into a windage tray to keep oil from splashing on the crank, aerating the oil and slowing it down. A crank “scrapper” is a strip fo metal that bolts to the oil pan flange or is welded to the pan with a edge that gets close to the crank shaft on the passenger side, to help the crank shed excess oil into the pan. A lightened flywheel should be on the list too.

The fuel pressure should be monitored near the carbs (tee to a hose with a gauge you can see from the driver’s seat) to see if the pump, filter, and line size are adequate.

Valve float is another possibility from valve springs that are too soft or hydraulic lifters that pump up from excess oil pressure faster than they can bleed down (generally .030” preload) or solid lifters can be used.

The head may be unported so that leaves a bit more on the table. The idea is just to clean it up to improve flow rather than hogging out material. Undercut stainless valves, titanium retainers, beehive springs for smaller diameter (lighter) retainers and more clearance for higher lift, and we have not even mentioned the cam yet.

Bolt it on with a thinner head gasket for more compression but then the cam gear needs to be adjustable since this tends to reduce the distance to the crank and retards the cam slightly with the marks aligned. A whole tooth of deliberate misalignment would be way too much to compensate.

Much of this could be weekend projects where the car is not down for very long.

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PostPosted: September 23, 2019, 11:49 am 
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What about the possibility of adding a low boost (7-9 lb.) turbo to your current engine? That would allow toy to keep almost everything else you have, but get a nice jump in horsepower.

It's a thought, anyway.

Cheers,

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PostPosted: September 23, 2019, 1:31 pm 
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Making a Zetec run on carbs isn't that difficult, a Megajolt set up works very well but does require an EDIS module and coil pack. Intake manifolds are readily available from the UK. I have a carb'd blacktop Zetec (ex-Focus) in my Europa running a TPS set-up Megajolt. Trog, I am local to you (in Kits), so if you want to see it or if you want some first hand experience on converting a Zetec, let me know.

Rod


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PostPosted: September 23, 2019, 2:18 pm 
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
There's a new Zetec ignition system available out of the UK called "NoDiz". It's dirt simple, extremely programmable, and....cheap!! It uses the original Ford pickup & reluctor, so no new parts are required. My "partner in crime" (who's building the same Zetec-engined, Weber-carbureted car I am) just received his NoDiz, and is extremely impressed.

I'm going to be ordering one myself to replace the expensive Q4R system I currently have.

https://motorsport-electronics.co.uk/pr ... nodiz-pro/

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PostPosted: September 24, 2019, 5:39 pm 
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Lonnie-S wrote:
What about the possibility of adding a low boost (7-9 lb.) turbo to your current engine? That would allow toy to keep almost everything else you have, but get a nice jump in horsepower.

It's a thought, anyway.

Cheers,


I looked into the supercharger option as it avoids messing with the exhaust side. Moss offer s bolt-on supercharger for the 1500cc MGA that is probably adequate for my 1600-CVH. However, I can't see an easy way of modifying the blower to accommodate the location of my intake.

I've been looking for a similar blower that be located appropriately. In any case...it's a pretty costly option.

http://www.mossmotoring.com/force-fed-b ... arger-kit/


Last edited by Trog on September 24, 2019, 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: September 24, 2019, 5:48 pm 
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cs3tcr wrote:
Making a Zetec run on carbs isn't that difficult, a Megajolt set up works very well but does require an EDIS module and coil pack. Intake manifolds are readily available from the UK. I have a carb'd blacktop Zetec (ex-Focus) in my Europa running a TPS set-up Megajolt. Trog, I am local to you (in Kits), so if you want to see it or if you want some first hand experience on converting a Zetec, let me know.

Rod


I've successfully installed and tuned an electronic engine management system in an old 911 years ago. And although it results in an extremely flexible system, it's more than I can justify for the Westy. Burton Power offers a toothed-wheel kit c/w brackets and sensor for the CVH. By the time I've accumulated the balance of items, I'll probably be north of $1K.

Ideally, I would like to find a 100% mechanical distributor for my current engine. So far, no luck! Alternately, converting it to 100% mechanical may be an option (if possible). My research into drilling the Weber's for a suitable vacuum signal doesn't seem to be workable option based on others experience with this mod. That being said, I don't find my low end performance is an issue.

At this stage, I'm still leaning to a new cam/lifters/springs and a mild head porting. Makes for a nice winter project.


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PostPosted: September 24, 2019, 7:39 pm 
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The current distributor is all mechanical advance but with electronic ignition. The plate is held stationary by vacuum advance internal spring. You could remove the vac advance but would need to find another way to hold the plate.
The ignition module is just an amplifier of the distributor pickup coil so the voltage change is enough to trigger the coil. If there were no flyweights in the distributor, then the advance would be electronic.

I understand your reluctance to drilling holes in expensive webers for what would be at best only a few mpg and no performance improvement. As for other folks success, the details can make all the difference.

I would not turn down a ride in the zetec europa though! :cheers:

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PostPosted: October 1, 2019, 9:21 pm 
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Trog wrote:
I have been unable to find any parts supplier for this engine on this side of the pond requiring me to source all my parts from the UK (Burton Power). Starts to get a little pricey with shipping and all.


Try Norm Murdock at Team Blitz Capri parts. I don't think he carries any CVH bits in inventory, but he's set up with most of the British aftermarket parts places. He's sort of the "orphan Ford" guy, everything from Anglias to Cosworths.

He batches orders, so if you're willing to wait a bit shipping might not be too bad.

[edit]
It's a Westfield... is it the same chassis as the V8s? You could try the aluminum Buick Kool-Aid... and you can frequently snag nice ones at a reasonable price, from people who built with grand ideas, then never managed to finish the rest of the project. The MGV8 forums have for-sale sections.


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