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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:16 pm 
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Location: Abbotsford B.C. Canada
Hi there,
I should start this and say I know virtually nothing about transmissions, in the past when I've blown them up it's just been a re and re procedure for me anyhow I bought this transmission off of e-bay about a month ago
Image
Image
It's off of a late model 2.3 duratec Ranger/B2300 It looks to be in good shape and aside from having the correct bell housing it was gloriously cheap compared to my other options (about $150 vs. $800+ for a NC miata or to buy a bell housing to fit a T-5 could easily run you a grand or more by the time it's bolted up. The downfall of this particular transmission is the shifter location that will be hidden quite nicely by the scuttle... fine for people with five foot arms and multiple elbows and wrists, me not so much.
I've been looking online for solutions and while a home brew shift re-locator is doable I came across a picture and then an article with lots of pictures. http://www.tccoa.com/articles/mn12how-to/m5r2_rebuild/m5r2-rebuild-howto.html
Now to the best of my knowledge my trans is a M50D-R1 Mazda built Ford part numbered transmission. This other Transmission is from a Ford T-bird Super coupe, fitted with a M5R1 Mazda/Ford Transmission.
Looking at these pictures in my garage last night on my laptop all the holes seem to be in the right places to swap off the top cover and the tail assembly to make my transmission a rear shifter. Can anyone see problems with my logic on this??? If this is workable than this could prove to be the silver bullet to make Duratec builds more affordable.

Thanks,
Ted

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:30 pm 
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I am very interested in this post as the Duratec 2.3 is at the top of my engine swap list for this winters project. I did find this link about the M5OD trans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_M5OD_transmission
Graham


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:46 pm 
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Wiki is a fantastic resource and that is exactly where I started on this yesterday :) I'm hoping that someone in this community has some answers. Somewhere I read that about 19,000 S/C's where fitted with this trans and something like 3000 cougars. There may be other applications for this configuration of the M5R2 that I don't know about (yet) 22,000 units seems like a fairly low production run, although at this point 20 years down the road I'm sure there are plenty of wrecked examples to be found.
I don't think I would even need a complete t-bird s/c transmission just parts or even perhaps just the housings and some odds and ends.

Cheers,
Ted

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:50 pm 
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Location: Tecumseh, Ontario Canada
There's a conversation (sort of - they're actually talking about rear-drive Focus conversion) about these trannies going on over at Rallyanarchy right now.

http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,45563,page=4

The 4 liter version appears to have half decent ratios for a seven paired to a 3.5-4:1 diff.

M5OD-R1 3.72 2.20 1.50 1.00 0.79 (2.3L, 3.0L Engines)
M5OD-R1 3.40 2.05 1.31 1.00 0.79 (4.0L Engine)

The 4-cyl tranny has a stump-puller first gear and wider spacing through the gears.

Apparently they bolt up to the 2.0/2.3/2.5 DuraTec as well as a few V6 options.

I would think a "traditional" parallel link shifter extension could be fabbed up to move the shifter back (here's pics of a couple of commercial ones for reference, easily fabbable).

http://www.autoworksparts.com/billet_shifter_relocation_kit.htm

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/ProdImages/10490-C.jpg

Given the economics of these transmissions (they're all over car-part.com for short money) I've been thinking of scrapping my SVT Zetec/T5 ideas in exchange for a DuraTec/M5OD combo which looks cheaper to source than just the bell and hydraulic TOB I'll need.

Cheers, Ted

Cheers, Ted


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:06 pm 
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ted andkilde wrote:
Given the economics of these transmissions (they're all over car-part.com for short money) I've been thinking of scrapping my SVT Zetec/T5 ideas in exchange for a DuraTec/M5OD combo which looks cheaper to source than just the bell and hydraulic TOB I'll need.

Cheers, Ted

Cheers, Ted


I may be a little biased here but I think the duratec/M50D is a fantastic powertrain choice!

Cheers,
Ted

LOL it sounds like there's an echo in here!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:15 pm 
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I'm actually not too worried about the first gear ratio, I figure that I'll be able to get around that with pretty relaxed gearing in the back end. The power to weight ratio is so crazy in these cars that if it tends to have long gears that may prove to be a real advantage in my turbo application. As it sits I'm willing to bet a lot of guys start out in second.

Cheers,

Ted

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:35 pm 
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BBlue did some really sweet work with that transmission and a 2.3L Ranger engine.

His post is further down on the first page of the Engine forum: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6298&start=60

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:08 am 
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I am working on a remote shifter myself. I have many of the parts cut out I am just waiting for sunday when I can cobble it all together. I think that I came up with a novel idea, similiar to BBlue in implementation but, with some big differences. I hope to post pics of it soon. As far as using the parts from an TBird SC you would probably need the upper cover, and tailshaft assembly to get it to work. Other than that I don't see why it wouldn't.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:56 am 
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Some general info I've picked up over the years, some from personal experience, the rest I have no reason to doubt.

While the R2 appears to have internal components lifted from the R1, there are subtle differences. Looking at repair parts numbers, there appears to be little interchangeability. I'm thinking a case to case swap of parts would be the best bet.

It does appear the shifter from the R2 will bolt onto the R1, but I have no idea if this true. Would be great if it was.

The Internal components of 2.3 SOHC and 3.0 Vulcan are the same as the Duratec. Somewhere around the year 2000, Ford switched to fibre lined blocking rings. This required enough changes in design that parts interchangeability of brass/ and fibre blocking rings trannys is pretty tricky. However, the parts can be swapped into the Duratec case en mass. I know that is fact, I did it because the 2nd gear fibre blocking ring costs $307, available only through Ford.

While the 4.0 gear set looks attractive, the tranny guru over on "The Ranger Station" says it would be best if the entire case components were swapped out and even then, he thinks that some non-obvious case modification would be necessary.

My braced shifter extension is working quite nicely. There is nothing magical about the design, it is something that I thought I could fabricate with materials on hand to keep the out of pocket costs low. I think I have less than five bucks in it. I see no reason why a version based on a Heim joint or tie rod end would not work. There is not very much angular movement.

Bill


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Hi Bill,
I've been quite impressed with your engine build, I love the oil pan and see one of those in my future, I've got the front wheel drive pan that will suck on so many levels. Is that valve cover aluminum on your engine? I have taken a really close look at the remote shifter that you built and even did some eyeballing with a 12in extension and universal joint from my tool kit to help with the visualization. I think that I would need to implement a bend of sorts in the connecting rod to lower the whole assembly, while not as simple I think the mounting plate for the universal joint would need to be pretty close to the output shaft flange at the back of the tranny. If I copied your design as it is I think the shifter would end up way to high up leaving me with either a floating shifter assembly in the cabin or the highest transmission tunnel ever seen in a locost, the other thing is that I'll probably need something even longer than what you have although I'm not exactly sure by how much yet. Do you have any ideas on what would be required to lower the whole works?

Cheers,
Ted

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:01 pm 
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The valve cover is aluminum.

I have read that early M5's had a lower shifter arrangement, the change was made in the mid 90's. No idea what that was or how it could be implemented onto the Duratec case. Likewise, I am fresh out of ideas as to how to lower the extension mechanism. What I have was lowest I could do without altering the case. As it is, the stock shifter stub has been shortened by about 2" and the mechanism is only about 1/2" above the tranny cover. I was able to keep all the shift linkage inside the stock transmission tunnel of the Alpine, but there is no spare room!

As the length of the extension becomes greater, it seems it would be easier to change shifter height. But I have a hell of a time figuring that kind of stuff out, especially on paper. I have to start making chips and see what works and what doesn't. It usually doesn't, which makes for a large pile of chips and several versions of each device.

Bill


Last edited by BBlue on Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:36 pm 
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How would you categorize the physical size of the M50D trans? I currently have a Miata engine/trans in the car. How does the physical size of the M50D compared to a Miata trans.

Thanks

Graham


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:22 pm 
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You know what, I'm not sure, I don't have a miata trans to compare it too. What I can do either tonight or tomorrow is take a bunch of pics and a bunch of measurements and I'll post them on here as soon as I figure out how to draw all of those little lines and such on my photos.
Oh and if there is something specific you want LMK.
Cheers,
Ted

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:20 am 
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Ok here are some pics with measurements. As a Canadian and a child of the 70's everything is in metric. I should mention that theses measurements are very close but not exact say +/- 2 or 3mm. Overall length is a measurement or the casting only.

Cheers,
Ted


Image
shifter is measured from the center.
Image
shifter is measured from the center.
Image

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:32 am 
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ted andkilde wrote:
There's a conversation (sort of - they're actually talking about rear-drive Focus conversion) about these trannies going on over at Rallyanarchy right now.

http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,45563,page=4

The 4 liter version appears to have half decent ratios for a seven paired to a 3.5-4:1 diff.

M5OD-R1 3.72 2.20 1.50 1.00 0.79 (2.3L, 3.0L Engines)
M5OD-R1 3.40 2.05 1.31 1.00 0.79 (4.0L Engine)

The 4-cyl tranny has a stump-puller first gear and wider spacing through the gears.

Apparently they bolt up to the 2.0/2.3/2.5 DuraTec as well as a few V6 options.

I would think a "traditional" parallel link shifter extension could be fabbed up to move the shifter back (here's pics of a couple of commercial ones for reference, easily fabbable).

http://www.autoworksparts.com/billet_shifter_relocation_kit.htm

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/ProdImages/10490-C.jpg

Given the economics of these transmissions (they're all over car-part.com for short money) I've been thinking of scrapping my SVT Zetec/T5 ideas in exchange for a DuraTec/M5OD combo which looks cheaper to source than just the bell and hydraulic TOB I'll need.

Cheers, Ted

Cheers, Ted

Ted, keep in mind that "stump puller" low gears is largely the result of the final drive ratio. If you look at the ratio spread of tranny, some interesting things pop up. The T5 has two popular configurations, one with a 3.35:1 low and .73:1 5th. The other has the 3.35:1 low and .68:1 5th. If you divide the fifth gear ratio into the first, you get 4.58 and 4.93, respectively. The M5's 3.73:1 and .79:1 yields a 4.72:1, right in the middle. I find that in the 2500 pound Alpine with a 3.55 final drive, first gear is very usable.

Bill


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