LocostUSA.com

I went to the Detroit Autorama today. Great time -- was a lot more fun that the big North America International Auto Show held in the same spot every year. Miller had a "learn to weld" booth, and amazingly they taught us on aluminum?!?! The APBA power boat people were offering a "learn to drive a race boat" school ($350 for a day), and the Fournier people were trying to show us how to do metalworking (they have classes too). Plus all the man cave decor items you'd want.

Long and short for this section:

- Ford people told me that they will have more info on their their new crate EcoBoost motors in the next month. The man I talked to said that he was one of the people who answered their tech support line. I encouraged him to post things like measurements, etc so we can plan our builds. Ford will sell a kit to provide ECU, accelerator pedal, etc.

- I asked about transmissions for the I4 and V6 versions of the Ecoboost. I could tell that Ford hadn't exactly thought this idea out -- they envisioned the smaller stuff to go in FWD applications. Aftermarket bell housing, they said. Although they said that it *should* bolt up to anything that the Vulcan motors bolt up -- *should*. They couldn't say for sure. I think that Ford doesn't like standardization in bell housings or something....

- I then went to the Tremac booth, and got some nice pics of cutaways of their products. No, you really can't just trade tail pieces on a T5, they said. The T-56 and TKO was obviously being marketed to the hot rod (read, "big V8 motors) crowd. They pointed me to the aftermarket for bell housings too.

- I went to Roush, and they don't have any plans to do anything other than V-8 motors. They mentioned $500 and up for aftermarket bell's.....

- Mopar is lost in the 1960's, and I think that it will take a while for Fiat to figure out that there might be an aftermarket for smaller motors.

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

This is America. The whole country is lost in the 60s when it comes to performance cars. Look at NASCAR. Look at the World of Outlaws, It's sad. Everyone I've talk to doesn't understand why I don't put a big V8 in my car. They just don't get it. Look at the new Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger. Look at the weights. They're like two tons. They only know one thing. Big engines. They have no understanding of a light weight car. It's like the whole damn country fell asleep in physics class.

I was shocked last year to see things like VW Jetta ( or whatever it is these days ) now weigh more then my '86 Mustang GT. That was 3150 lbs. It's just hard to fathom. My '78 Fiesta weighed about 1750.

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Marcus Barrow - Car9 an open design community supported sports car for home builders!
SketchUp collection for LocostUSA: "Dream it, Build it, Drive it!"
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Photoman..your getting a little carried away ..i work on everything..from civics to bentlys and im always curious to see what stuff weighs,its right on the vin tag in most cases..heres some fattys ..bently,range rover,mercedes,bmw ,vw the phaeton ,even a 350z weighs 3800lbs..the same as a late model 911turbo,most of the first 4 I mentioned are in the 4000plus club ,its a fact,most stuff is way too heavy.A 360 ferrari is 3200 ,a thousand more than a noble m400.

Are you sure that's what they said? The Ecoboost engines are based off the Duratec family, that would make a lot more sense. I'd be happy if they actually did mean the Vulcan, since hopefully that means more transmission choices are coming for the Vulcan bellhousing, which happens to be on the engine of my choice.

Right now for RWD options you can use a Ford Ranger 5 speed, Ranger/Explorer/Aerostar automatics, and if you're lucky enough to find a ultra-rare bellhousing and buy an adapter for it, a T5 from a very specific range of Mustang. There are no aftermarket bellhousings at all that I'm aware of.

- I asked about transmissions for the I4 and V6 versions of the Ecoboost. I could tell that Ford hadn't exactly thought this idea out -- they envisioned the smaller stuff to go in FWD applications. Aftermarket bell housing, they said. Although they said that it *should* bolt up to anything that the Vulcan motors bolt up -- *should*. They couldn't say for sure. I think that Ford doesn't like standardization in bell housings or something....


*should*? Which Vulcan motor? The FWD Vulcan pattern is the old "Pinto" pattern. The RWD Vulcan pattern is a variation of the "Lima" pattern, which is a variation of the "Pinto" pattern.

Bill

Bill,

I'm 99.9% positive that the Vulcan was the "only" Ford motor that was used unchanged in both FWD and RWD. I made a pattern off of a 3.0 Ranger tranny that I have and took it to a U-Pull_It yard, and it matched a 3.0 out of a Vulcan Taurus. I say 99.9% because the flywhee was still bolted to the Taurus Vulcan so I had to scrounge around for some long bolts to do a "standoff" match up. It's a dead-on match.

I too would be interested to see something in the way of a 5 speed come out of Tremec for a Vulcan pattern because it's evil twin, the SHO motor from the 89-95 Tauri is my engine of choice (I have 5 on engine stands in my shop, one on the build table and one in my offroad car). I think the CIDIDIT adaptor is going to be our best bet.

Tom

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Sometimes, I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar.

My short term memory is absolutely horrible and so is my short term memory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG16m2e4O6I

Did I mention that they hadn't thought this out? I'm not a Ford guy by any means, even thought I once lived in Dearborn. The Ford people simply think of their crate I4 and V6 motors being used for replacements I think, not for lightweight hot rods -- even though they did build a 32 Ford with one of those motors for a show car.

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

-The best one-line appraisal I've read. Several years ago I returned from a weekend among 7s and my first thought while walking down a city street was, "These cars are all so BIG!!"

-Pete

Thanks for the update and for trying to pry any useful information out of them when you had the chance. While I put more weight in what has been stated in the official press release from Ford than what a tech-support phone jockey claims, there is at least a few tidbits of new information to be had by reading between the lines. My guess is that aside from whoever Ford contracts with to develop their longitudinal RWD components for the Duratec I4 crate program, you won't see any other companies focusing on new products aimed at this new and untested market until after the engines are made available. Too bad about Fiat as their 1.4L turbo engine would especially be fun for a D-Mod legal Locost.


The weight listed on the vehicle information tag is the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) which tells you the maximum allowable weight including passengers and luggage, rather than the "curb" weight which is the actual weight of the vehicle itself.

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-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie

[quote="Driven5"]Thanks for the update and for trying to pry any useful information out of them when you had the chance. While I put more weight in what has been stated in the official press release from Ford than what a tech-support phone jockey claims, there is at least a few tidbits of new information to be had by reading between the lines. My guess is that aside from whoever Ford contracts with to develop their longitudinal RWD components for the Duratec I4 crate program, you won't see any other companies focusing on new products aimed at this new and untested market until after the engines are made available. Too bad about Fiat as their 1.4L turbo engine would especially be fun for a D-Mod legal Locost.

Well, when I asked the Mopar people about selling their smaller motors as crate motors, the guy looked puzzled, then asked, "You mean the 360?" I thought that was funny. As it turns out, they have a 2.2 that, according to some sources, would / might bolt up to a RWD tranny out of a Dodge truck or something. However, Mopar has no clue.

The Ford Ecoboost 1.6 comes in at 251 pounds (if you can believe anyone's engine weight numbers, since it might/might not include all of the "stuff" and fluids), which is 70 pounds lighter than the 2.0. And it would have about 185 hp or something, and might not be all that popular (and hence cheaper in j-yards).

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.

Hi firebat45,

If you mean the Duratec inline four, yes there are aftermarket bellhousings.
Most are for the Type 9 box.
e.g. http://www.raceline.co.uk/products/part ... tegoryID=1

Cheers - Gavin.

Sorry, I meant the Vulcan, I know that there's a few Duratec options.



BBlue - I don't like pointing out mistakes but I hate letting misinformation spread, the Vulcan is not the same as anything Lima/Pinto related. It is the same bellhousing pattern FWD and RWD, I have actually verified this myself. You might be thinking of the Essex engine, which shared the Vulcan pattern in FWD and the Windsor pattern in RWD? Or maybe the HSC motor, which was made in Lima?

geek49203 - Sorry if I came off sounding accusatory. I meant it more in a hopeful tone, doesn't come across well in text

Driven 5,yes the vin tag gvwr is all inclusive of all the crap you can stuff in the trunk but you would be surprised at how close it is to the curb weight,for example ..a new camaro conv 4106,legacy 3500,bmw 650 conv 4450,merc cls63 4300,new gtr 3850,cadi cts-v 4209 ,bently mulsanne 6812..these are from flicking thru a car and driver mag..

Thank you for consideration of my feelings. If anything I'm confused by all of this, and frustrated that I couldn't get better answers. Ford and their ecosystem (pun intended) telling me that the answer to bell housing issues is to call Quicktime and expect to pay $600 didn't sound very good. Oh, and I get home and Quicktime doesn't list a bell housing for anything other than the Ford V8's and the "2.3" (Pinto motor I assume?)

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Geek49203 aka
Tim Wohlford
Louisville, KY
Hayes front, S10 +2 rear, Lalo body.