LocostUSA.com

Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
It is currently March 28, 2024, 4:07 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: January 26, 2017, 4:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 7, 2012, 8:28 am
Posts: 1410
Location: Sarasota
I made an oil pan baffle to help reduce the chance of oil starvation in high speed corners. I got a lot of great feedback recently about engine sealant so thought I would also ask about a good adhesive to glue and seal the baffle in place rather then weld it (It's all aluminium).

Here is the baffle I made which is similar to many aftermarket products available for the S2000
Attachment:
IMG_20170123_211418.jpg
This is how it fits into the oil pan.
Attachment:
IMG_20170123_213227.jpg

I would also like advice about installation. The plan is to completely seal the outer edge to minimize the oil raising up through the cracks when cornering. My concern then is will it all make its way back down to the pickup point correctly.
Currently I just have the hole for the dip stick, should I add extra drainage holes to let the oil return to the bottom of the pan quickly?


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
2015 & 2016 EMod Florida State Autocross Champion
2013 & 2014 DSP Florida State Autocross Champion

Scrap Metal Build Log viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14558


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 26, 2017, 7:50 pm 
Offline
Mid-Engined Maniac

Joined: April 23, 2006, 8:26 pm
Posts: 6410
Location: SoCal
Well regardless of what's used, both surfaces need to be really really clean. The trouble with old oil pans is that many are cast and the oil works its way into the material - your adhesive won't stick. Regardless, I highly recommend doing an Alodyne treatment to both pieces; it does wonders to prep aluminum for paint (or adhesive in your case). As for the adhesive itself, I bought a modified pan and it had some sort of black RTV like stuff holding it together, so time to check out the adhesives isle in HD or maybe Aircraft Spruce, which is where I got the Alodyne from: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/alodine1201.php

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 26, 2017, 8:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 4, 2011, 6:19 pm
Posts: 829
I'd be really concerned about that piece of metal coming loose inside my pan. So much so that I'd flange the edges and bolt it through the sides of the pan in a few places so that I knew that it couldn't get loose.

Regarding drain holes, look at Google Images of "oil pan windage tray" and you'll see that most of them have a whole lot of drain holes or slats in them. Many appear to be made out of screening. I'm thinking that you'll want some additional drainage in yours.

I'm glad that you started this thread as I'm about to build a tray, but for a different make of engine, so the opportunity to think this through as you build is very valuable.

Bill

_________________
Bill H
Winnipeg, MB, Canada


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 26, 2017, 9:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 7, 2012, 8:28 am
Posts: 1410
Location: Sarasota
The S2000 already has a windage tray (if I'm getting all my terminology correct) so this would be in addition. The main purpose of my baffle is to try to reduce the oil sloshing in corners resulting in air being sucked into the pump. Obviously the pan coming loose is not desirable but I don't think it would really cause any issues. It wont really be able to move other then up and down if it did come loose. There is no way it could interfere with the crank or anything else, as such I think the risk is minimal.
Attachment:
IMG_20170126_193843.jpg

I may curve it slightly so the oil drains towards the hole like a kitchen sink.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
2015 & 2016 EMod Florida State Autocross Champion
2013 & 2014 DSP Florida State Autocross Champion

Scrap Metal Build Log viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14558


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 26, 2017, 9:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 7, 2012, 8:28 am
Posts: 1410
Location: Sarasota
Here is the Spoon's (Top Honda tuning company) $600 baffle. It may include the OEM oil pan for that price.
Attachment:
Screen Shot 2017-01-26 at 8.14.43 PM.png

I could weld it as I have a Mig Aluminum spool gun but, I'm concerned about blowing through the pan as I an not good at welding the Aluminum. Maybe I'll just give it a try as it is a spare pan anyway.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
2015 & 2016 EMod Florida State Autocross Champion
2013 & 2014 DSP Florida State Autocross Champion

Scrap Metal Build Log viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14558


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 26, 2017, 11:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: January 5, 2017, 11:36 am
Posts: 51
If you can find a new oil pan I would think about bonding your piece with 3 bond rtv or something similar. Nissan used rtv to bond mild steel oil baffles to its cast aluminum valve covers. After 20 some years it shows no signs of letting go, exposed to oil, oily gas, and hot steam.


On a used cast aluminum pan, I would only go with a process (welding/brazing) that burned off the oil the cast metal absorbed. Otherwise you are going to have to worry about the surfaces being super clean, and maybe pre heated for rtv have a chance.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 26, 2017, 11:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 4, 2011, 6:19 pm
Posts: 829
I didn't realize that the Honda had the upper tray in the engine. That's great as, as you say, there's no chance of wrapping yours around the crank if it did get loose. I think you should make it the same shape as the pro-designed reference.

I'd try welding it in if it was mine to do. How bad can you screw it up? If you blow a hole in the pan you can take it to a welder and get it fixed.

Bill

_________________
Bill H
Winnipeg, MB, Canada


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 27, 2017, 7:07 am 
Offline

Joined: February 28, 2009, 11:09 pm
Posts: 1307
Location: Connersville, Indiana
Maybe JB Weld or some other two part product? I don't know of any RTV type product that is labeled as oil proof, only oil resistant.

Bill


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 27, 2017, 8:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 7, 2012, 8:28 am
Posts: 1410
Location: Sarasota
BHRmotorsport wrote:
I'd try welding it in if it was mine to do. How bad can you screw it up? If you blow a hole in the pan you can take it to a welder and get it fixed.

Bill

That is a really good point. I'm all about the see if you can do it yourself first attitude.

_________________
2015 & 2016 EMod Florida State Autocross Champion
2013 & 2014 DSP Florida State Autocross Champion

Scrap Metal Build Log viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14558


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 27, 2017, 12:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 8, 2010, 8:02 pm
Posts: 621
Location: White Rock, BC, Canada
I would not use adhesive there. I think you are very unlikely to get anything to stick long term, and may risk plugging you oil p/u screen. I also wouldn't leave it loose in case the engine picks it's rattling up as knock.

Two things about welding:
-You may find it easiest to drill holes through the pan, then use alum rod through those holes and weld that to the pan/baffle. This way the welds are doing much less work at the pan, and you know you have new, clean material at the baffle.
-some automotive aluminum castings are..... weird. They will not weld worth a damn no matter what you do. No idea if that pan falls under that category.

_________________
Build log: viewtopic.php?t=9291


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 27, 2017, 1:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: May 27, 2006, 9:46 pm
Posts: 1954
Location: BC, Canada. eh?
As I said in the "engine sealants" thread, personally I'd recommend having the tray professionally TIG-welded in place. It wouldn't need to be seam welded all the way around, just a number of strategically-placed, secure tacks. It should only cost a few bucks, and a good TIG welder could do it without weakening the original pan. Great insurance & peace of mind at low cost. Plus, in the event that removal became necessary in the future, a series of tacks would be easier to remove than a seam weld.

_________________
Scratch building, at continental-drift speed, a custom McSoreley-design framed, dual-Weber 45DCOE carburated, Zetec-engined, ridiculously fast money pit.

http://zetec7.webs.com/


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 27, 2017, 8:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: March 30, 2011, 7:18 am
Posts: 1615
Location: central Arkansas
Have some tabs welded in, then drill and tap them to anchor the tray.

You'll want to get in there to clean it out someday,


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 27, 2017, 10:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: April 8, 2012, 7:05 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Warrens WI
I have an old electric stove in my shop just for "baking" cast parts that need welding (aluminum or iron) ,works great and pre heats it making thick castings weld better.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 27, 2017, 11:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 7, 2012, 8:28 am
Posts: 1410
Location: Sarasota
Thats a good idea I might put it in the oven for an hour first, weld it and then leave it in the oven for about 8 hours to help strengthen the welds. There was a great post about it somewhere.

_________________
2015 & 2016 EMod Florida State Autocross Champion
2013 & 2014 DSP Florida State Autocross Champion

Scrap Metal Build Log viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14558


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: January 28, 2017, 9:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 17, 2015, 1:56 am
Posts: 156
Location: Morrisville, PA
What is the distance between your wind-age tray and the baffle? My though is that you use a shim or set of standoffs to attach the baffle to the wind-age tray mounting screws so you don't have to adhere or weld the baffle in place.

_________________
-STu

There is no shame in defeat, so long as the spirit is unconquered

My Build Log


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
POWERED_BY