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 Post subject: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: March 28, 2017, 12:27 pm 
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Joined: December 2, 2016, 10:41 am
Posts: 5
Hi All –

My son and I are starting a Car9 build and want to use the Duratec 2.3. Researching my state regs (NH), the year of mfg for the engine dictates emission testing requirements even tho I’m building a replica of an earlier car (though we likely won’t need wipers and defrost, etc.) So the question is… pre-96 Miata drivetrain to avoid OBD II or Duratec 2.3 w/ NC Miata transmission and figure out OBD II??? We’d like to go the latter route and looking at donor vehicles the costs are similar (planning to buy the entire vehicle in running condition).

Going the Duratec 2.3 route, we’d use the engine from the donor Ford Focus (which I understand to be 2005-07 ZX4 in ST trim) and source a Miata NC 5-speed. Yes, buying a Ford Ranger will get me the entire drivetrain (a 2.3 and a 5-speed MT) but to go that route requires swapping the intake, throttle body and oil pan from a Focus (from the Duratec/MZR thread; “if i were to do it again, then i would also buy a focus engine and a ranger trans.” – john hennessy).

From car-part.com, it looks as if the Ranger and Miata transmissions are now in the same price range and with the Locost-friendly gear ratios on the Miata tranny, it seems to be the better route. I’m still not sure whether I can use the Focus flywheel, clutch, and starter w/ the Miata tranny (or do I need that from the Miata like you would if you sourced a Ranger tranny?) If the Focus flywheel, clutch and starter would play nicely w/ the Miata tranny, then it’s a no brainer.

So, is this a nightmare to get the Focus engine/Miata tranny to pass OBD II? I believe I want a Focus that originally had a manual tranny (otherwise I’d need to get the ECU, etc from a manual.) I have read many of the build logs for Duratecs and know it’s been done but didn’t see a lot surrounding the OBD II requirements. Any/all feedback is welcome. THANKS!

-Lee


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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: March 28, 2017, 1:01 pm 
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Joined: August 27, 2005, 1:04 am
Posts: 1275
Location: Kamloops, BC, Canada
I haven't built a locost with a 2.3, but drive a Focus with a 2.3 and a manual transmission. You don't need to limit yourself so much on your search, ours is a basic 2003 wagon, and when my wife bought it she wasn't looking at engine size at all. It's a US market car that was imported to Canada after the fact too, so there should be plenty of them around the US. Making the obd 2 work probably won't require more than a vehicle speed sensor if you use the wiring and ecu from a manual trans Focus. You could probably use an abs tone wheel and the focus sensor, just need to send the ecu a signal close to what it expects.
Kristian

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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: March 28, 2017, 1:37 pm 
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Joined: December 2, 2016, 10:41 am
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Well that certainly helps expand the list of donors! Guess I interpreted the table in wiki wrong - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Focu ... generation)

Thx!


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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: March 28, 2017, 2:07 pm 
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Joined: February 8, 2014, 10:47 pm
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Location: Cornholio OR "Where the magic happens"
I think you will need to retain both the cats (up & down) and the monitor O2 sensor.
You will also need to retain the charcoal canister tank vent system and purge solenoid.

Not sure what other monitors run but those are 2 biggies.

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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: March 28, 2017, 2:45 pm 
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Joined: January 10, 2008, 4:47 pm
Posts: 7379
Location: Massachusetts
Is there a year for older cars they stop checking the OBD II. For instance maybe look at the engine check light but don't bother plugging in a code reader? Here in MA, they stopped checking my cars after a certain number of years. I think maybe 15, but not sure on that.

Welcome to the forum and congrats on choosing a good locost to build! :yay:

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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: March 28, 2017, 4:25 pm 
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Joined: January 31, 2012, 12:49 pm
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Location: Louisville KY
Can those ECU's be flashed to turn off a few unneeded things?

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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: March 28, 2017, 4:32 pm 
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Joined: October 23, 2010, 2:40 am
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Lee,
Welcome! Its exciting to have another Car9 build in the works :yay:

I look forward to following your Build Log. Can't help much with the 4-banger side of it, but happy to contribute where I can. :cheers:

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My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: March 28, 2017, 4:47 pm 
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Joined: April 26, 2008, 6:06 pm
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Location: Under the weather. (Seattle)
You will need to match the flywheel, clutch and starter all to the transmission.

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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: March 29, 2017, 10:18 am 
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Joined: October 6, 2009, 9:29 am
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Location: Tallahassee, FL (The Center of the Known Universe)
Welcome to the gang, Lee! I'll be looking in on your Car9 build, glad to see another one start up.

For the record, I don't know poo-poo about Duratec 2.3 motors or OBD II or any of that stuff, but this is the Interwebz, so I can sound off with all kinds of important sounding opinions. Be sure to disregard all of them... :mrgreen:

Again, welcome! And good luck!
:cheers:
JDK

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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: April 2, 2017, 7:17 pm 
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Joined: February 9, 2016, 8:46 am
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Location: New Jersey
Sounds like you have basically the same requirements as The Garden State. For OBDII, you will need ALL of the original emissions components from the donor. They will be testing it just like the car it came out of. If it throws any error codes, you fail. If the "Check Engine" light does not come on when their system tells it to, you fail. Not trying to be a doom and gloom kind of guy, just be aware of the pitfalls. You will need to have both cat's, evap canister, all gear that goes with that (for the vacuum test), etc. You really should not have a problem if you are buying a running donor, and tag everything as you take it apart. Good luck, whichever way you decide to go.

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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: April 12, 2017, 9:16 pm 
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Joined: December 2, 2016, 10:41 am
Posts: 5
Thanks for the warm welcome fellas!!! I've been doing a lot of reading here and really appreciate the comradery and collaborative environment!

So... After a bit of research, the 2.3 in an '05-'07 only came in the ZX4 ST and it's a bit of a unicorn. Unfortunately, this is the 151hp version. The 2.3 in the '03-'04s were PZEV and 145hp. Since I live near a "green" state, they are slightly more common. [note: the engine code in the VIN is the 8th digit. "Z" gets you the 2.3L, while "N" is the more common 2.0L and "3" is the earlier 2. Zetec]

The plan has been to buy a running car that wasn't throwing codes so that we could pull all the "stuff" to make sure we knew what it looked like when we put it back together. We're still headed in that direction but it hasn't been easy to find the right car [we drove 2 hrs down to Providence to drive the only ZX4 ST on CL... only to learn that we wouldn't take it for free (quality father/son time tho!)]

So... we're more focused [pun intended] on a PZEV version and also looking at automatics - we're likely going to tune it and (per the suggestion) think the tranny can be tuned out.

Will keep you posted!

PS. Really good info here: http://www.mypowerblock.com/m/group/dis ... %3A1337016


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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: April 14, 2017, 7:27 am 
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Joined: February 28, 2009, 11:09 pm
Posts: 1225
Location: Connersville, Indiana
The Fusion 2.3 is more powerful (160 hp). But then I'm not sure what you have in mind. Just noticed you have not mentioned the Fusion application.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fusion_(Americas)

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: April 17, 2017, 10:07 pm 
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Joined: December 2, 2016, 10:41 am
Posts: 5
Fusion 2.3 - That is a GREAT idea!

The good news/bad news is that we bought a 2004 Focus 2.3 Duratec PZEV.

Taking things apart is much more fun than putting them back together. I rebuilt a TR6 and learned the hard way about labels and zip-lock bags.... My son and I are currently engaged in an Old Bull/Young Bull approach debate. I know I'm right but it's lose/lose - if he listens to me I'll hear how it took too long. If he doesn't, well... It'll take much longer.

Currently sourcing the rest of the parts and bugging Marcus and the other Car9 aficionados. Build log to follow. Thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: April 18, 2017, 3:43 pm 
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Joined: April 26, 2008, 6:06 pm
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I believe the Fusion uses the Mazda version of the engine, which has intake cam variable timing, which is less well supported in the aftermarket and might (or might not?) add some complexity...Well, more technically correct would be to say that the Focus (and Ranger) use a Ford variation* of the Mazda developed engine.



*cheapened

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 Post subject: Re: Duratec 2.3 & OBD II
PostPosted: April 18, 2017, 6:29 pm 
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viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14753

As long as you get everything from the donor car it isn't a big deal to use the stock ECU. Unless you get the ECU flashed, the worst part is going to be making the EVAP stuff work. Its probably not the end of the world if you have all of the sensors and valves and know where stuff connects.

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