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PostPosted: March 30, 2017, 12:00 am 
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Joined: November 11, 2013, 4:47 am
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Location: No. Nevada
I have two possibilities to drive the water pump and alternator for my Buick 3.8 V6.
Either electric or a short jack-shaft.
Cannot just use the standard pulleys as the steering is in the way.

I prefer a mechanically driven water pump and alternator but doing that gets a little complex, and where do I get a trustworthy bearing set for the jack-shaft?
Electric water pump would be MUCH simpler, but how reliable are they out here in the real word, daily driver, and some high speed runs on the long lonely roads of Nevada?

I would expect that more than a few here have used electric water pumps, it even seems they are stock on a few production cars?
I suspect that the quality of the electric motor may be the deciding factor?

Running just the alternator from the crank remains pretty simple although I may mount it reversed.

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PostPosted: March 30, 2017, 1:07 am 
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I used a meizere water pump on my turbo sr20 Nissan motor for a few years. Stopped driving the car but the pump ran strong as a daily driver without any hiccups. It wasn't cheap though and to do it again I would have went with and Australia made pump that was big 10 years ago ( forgot the name of the company in that time :? )

As a way cheaper alternative a bilge pump for a boat has been done before too. They are 12 volt and all, just look for one with as much metal as possible to deal with the heat and put it after the radiator... The cooler side

.....And keep a very close eye on your water temps with the bilge pump just in case. They usually pump cold water only :wink:


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PostPosted: March 30, 2017, 2:08 am 
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Location: No. Nevada
SBC, BBC, SBF, BBF, & Mopar = $100.00 - $225.00 depending on brand.
BOP-Rover V8 or BOP V6, only available from Mezier $470.00! :BH:

Sorry Mezier, but no :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: way a 4X price increase is justified.
Not liking the bulk or cheesy look of the Moroso kit.
May just buy one of the $100.00 Summit SBC units and make it work.
Over $400.00 is not Locost, or justified. :BH:

May just pop over to an AU Rover forum to look around too.

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PostPosted: March 30, 2017, 2:15 am 
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BMW runs it, they last roughly 65k miles and cost 260$. They have a pwm motor so you can set it up to work off load if you know sorcery. I did ponder your same though process on cutting up the chevy unit.


Last edited by Evlshnngns on March 30, 2017, 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: March 30, 2017, 9:52 am 
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VW has ran them for years. I have no idea about the application but FSAE teams were using them over a decade ago when they needed the stock water pump location for the dry sump pump.

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PostPosted: March 30, 2017, 2:41 pm 
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Craig Davies is the brand I was thinking of, it has some pwm controller options.
Probably not the best prices/options but just illustrations and vague range of LPM.

[url]https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=25731&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=DC8105&gclid=CMSBo8Tt_tICFcK3wAodS_EPKQ][/url]

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=25739&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=DC8140&gclid=CI7Ts8jt_tICFQsAaQod9ZQFdw

With the miezere pump it looks like the price jumped pretty well. As I remember the prices were higher for the "kits". I think they just came with a block off plate for where the water pump lived, and AN fittings to adapt the pumps fittings to the radiator hose. Not really worth the price jump if you make your own plate, and shop around for the fittings or make your own on the lathe.


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PostPosted: March 30, 2017, 3:06 pm 
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Joined: December 29, 2007, 10:41 pm
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Location: Vancouver, BC
Andrew,
Do you recall which VW used the electric pumps? I did a quick search on Rockauto and found the VW Phaeton had an auxilary pump, any ideas if this pump would be up to the task on a Locost type car?

Rod


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PostPosted: April 2, 2017, 11:07 am 
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For some reason I thought it was the main pump - turns out its the auxiliary: http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-BOSCH-Elect ... 2548.l4275

I recall these being enough to cool bike engines - no idea if they can keep up on a Locost.

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PostPosted: April 2, 2017, 5:17 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles
I have installed the Davies-Craig pump on my 2.3l Duratec. I have it wired so that their controller runs the pump rather than the ECU. I removed the stock pump and thermostat and fabricated blocking plates. It seems to work well although I am just starting to get the car on the road.


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PostPosted: April 2, 2017, 6:35 pm 
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papak wrote:
I have installed the Davies-Craig pump on my 2.3l Duratec. I have it wired so that their controller runs the pump rather than the ECU. I removed the stock pump and thermostat and fabricated blocking plates. It seems to work well although I am just starting to get the car on the road.

I looked at doing the same thing. When I want to spend a little money to add some power I will go this route to remove some parasitic loss. I will also go with a much smaller than OEM alternator.

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PostPosted: April 2, 2017, 7:00 pm 
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The whole industry is moving that way. There's a number of GM applications now as well. (HF V6, I think?)

BMW pumps don't like to sit without running but they were early on the OEM electric water pump scene so I bet the suppliers figured it out pretty quickly.

I do think you need a PWM signal to make them work properly. Could piggyback off of a lot of fan controllers.

Alex


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PostPosted: April 3, 2017, 12:08 am 
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Yeah pwm or else more than likely you'll​ have to get creative with overcooling solutions for boring drives. I just stuck a sheet of coroplast over 3/4 of the radiator most of the time.

I highly doubt that bosch aux pump will give you the flow you need. I think it might be the same pump my Saturn redline ion uses for it's laminova intercooler (water cooled, intake manifold integrated factory intercooler deal). It's got a super skinny radiator and maybe 1 inch coolant lines.

Don't expect power gains either, all I ran was the alt and an AL crank pulley. The one belt was great and simple, but the alt in theory works harder to pump out the extra amps ( ...well at least with a non pwm pump running full tilt at all times). If you go with a smaller alt make sure you find one that still keep up with everything you need. There are some cool small but high amp alts out there, some aftermarket and some OEM.


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PostPosted: April 3, 2017, 12:44 pm 
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Being that the thermostats rarely open past halfway under normal driving, I bet an intercooler pump from a Ford Lightning or Cobra will work. Most of those guys are ditching the blowers for turbos so the pumps and heat exchangers wont work for them anymore. I use one to pump "cooled" water from radiator to the heater core in my off road car (to keep SWMBO warm) and then back to the oil cooler before it heads back radiator. Gives my oil cooler the coolest possible coolant.

Tom

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PostPosted: April 3, 2017, 9:26 pm 
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Great idea/ use Tom! I will have to keep that one in mind....but

I hate to say it but that svt pump is what the Saturn guys use when the factory sc redlines pumps go out. They are only good for 4-5 gallon per minute. Looking at the ratings specifically for the gm 3.8 v6 replacement e- water pumps seem to be rated for 35-45 gpm. In winter just putzin around that might work but summer will mean trouble let alone spirited driving.


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PostPosted: April 10, 2017, 9:43 am 
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GM had two different "front dress" for the 3.8 and 3800 V6s; RWD and FWD. The FWD timing cover, water pump, pulleys, and bracketry are a complete package, the whole being many inches shorter than the RWD bits.

I never heard why GM didn't just standardize the FWD dress across all carlines, but then GM never had any problem with making half a dozen variants of the same part...

If you don't mind some fabrication, several modern FWD engines bolt the water pump to the side of the block, not the front.


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