LocostUSA.com

That really kills the idea of frugality for sure; better stick with the factory setup. Hmm.. It's really a shame so few options with high stock N/A output are left on the table for a mid-engined application when limited to a poor man's budget, but I guess the fact that this exercise can be done at all on a poor man's budget is something to behold - especially since I've seen it done so well on these forums and elsewhere.



I've been looking into Nissan Transmissions & apparently they're very fond of recycling a single transmission through several engine lines, which is good news for sure. Evidently not only does the entire VQ line share the same bellhousing pattern but this same pattern is used in the I6 RB engine line as well, though the VQ40 may be an exception to this rule as it appears to me the crankcase design & overall dimensions are quite different from the rest of the VQ series. Also, when looking for a manual Transmission to fit the VQ, the 5-Speed from a 1995-1999 Maxima came in two different forms: the RS5F50V which features an LSD, and the RS5F50A which does not. These codes can be found on the passenger side of the firewall to identify which was installed, as no identifying codes besides the VIN number can be found on the transmission itself - this is yet another reason to try for a donor rather than source the parts independently.

Still, an even better transmission built to handle stronger loads is the 6-Speed from the 2002-Present Maxima, though it seems only the 2003+ models feature a locking diff - though even more tranny options were available for the 2004+ models which is what I would try to locate when sourcing a donor. No word yet as to how to identify between them; I'll look into it & report back here. I'm also not sure if any of the newer HR forms share bellhousings with the rest of the VQ line, as they're only found in newer RWD sports models - though if they do the VQ35HR would be a sweet 311HP option, though most likely very expensive. I also hadn't noticed the VQ30DD version before - 230-260HP, but only featured in vehicles not readily found in the States.

Irrelevant to the VQ35DE but still interesting is that the Nissan SR and KA engine lines share the same transmission but with a different bellhousing, which means the engine can be brought in with matching bellhousing to fit the same transmission.

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Thanks a lot for the tip. I've since let go of the notion to jump through a series of expensive hoops simply to have a more "original" engine choice; besides it's not like building your own car even if it comes in kit form, right out of a box isn't original enough of a project in and of itself. I don't mind using the same engine choice as the Noble for a similar purpose; the engine was obviously chosen for a reason & has proven itself in one of the greatest sports cars of all time. I'd be proud at this point to be able to say I adopted a similar formula for my own design; a toast to Lee Noble himself if you will.

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I don't know where on that page you see that the Mazda6 uses an MTX75; the only mention of the Mazda6 I see is that it uses the Aisin 6-speed Automatic. Sourced from Edmunds & Wikipedia it would seem the only transmission options when coupled with the Duratec V6 are a 5-speed automatic and a 5-speed manual, which I would have assumed to be the MTX75 but is instead the A65M-R as you've listed.

Listed on >this< page is a little more info about the A65M-R:

"This transmission is similar to designs used on the Jaguar X-Type and Ford SVT Contour line. Its a 5 speed manual with with a double cone Syncro on 1st and 2nd gears. The A65M-R calls for SAE 75w-90 (API Service GL-4 or GL5) in all weather conditions. It takes 2.4 qts in a fluid exchange. The 6s MTX gear ratio's do not change for 05."

Here is a list of gear ratios for the A65M-R, MTX75 and MT285 [Getrag] transmissions:

Gear:------A65M-R:-----MTX75:-----MT285:
1st--------3.153--------3.420--------4.460
2nd--------1.842--------2.136--------2.710
3rd--------1.258--------1.448--------1.330
4th--------0.947--------1.028--------1.090
5th--------0.733--------0.767--------1.330
6th-------------------------------------1.090
Final-------4.133--------4.060--------4.250

The PDF you've listed is also very informative. From what little I know of gear ratios I'm very much liking the A65M-R; seems it would be better suited for a lighter car. It's also a newer design & built for a faster & lighter line of cars than that of the MTX75. I'm thinking it would be the best option to mate with the Duratec V6 engine choice; the price would probably be a little more however - I'll have to look into it & report back here. I also don't know if any aftermarket support exists for this transmission as well as it does for the MTX75, or if such parts could be interchangeable considering the fundamental similarities between them.

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No, I understand completely; many are fond of them. Brunton Automotive uses strictly GM parts for the Stalker V6, including the 3.8L Supercharged L67 - and it does so very well. I can't ignore the ~450LB weight though when it comes down to the cold hard math of it all.



So it would seem. I very much like the better transmission options for the Duratec V6, though I'm more fond of the extra power and torque of the VQ35DE obviously. I like the idea of a six speed as well for a little more exoticism, as I wouldn't use the 6-speed MT285 with the Duratec V6 but would likely only have a 6-speed option for the VG35DE. I'm much more informed about the durability of the Duratec tranny options though; I don't know how well the VQ35DE transmissions hold up under stress on the track. Overall the VQ35DE is the more expensive option as well, but I'm still leaning towards it for some reason.



Yes, I frequent the site very often. Another good one I found just recently is a site called www.lkqonline.com - They have an amazing inventory, and very good prices across the board. I usually check both sites equally when I'm sourcing for prices - motors.ebay.com is obviously another one for checking out prices & for finding small bits of things for cheap.

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- Also known as the L67 or the 3800; a great engine indeed. Featured in the Brunton Automotive Stalker V6, which held the Unlimited Time Trial Homestead-Miami Speedway Lap Record for over a year & was only just very recently broken by a 2006 Radical SR3. I don't know anything about the F40 transaxle though as far as pricing, durability or availability.

The Nissan Sentra SER Spec V uses the same 6 speed found in the later Maximas, but with a helical limited slip. The 2003 + models have better ratios for first and second gear than the 2002.

A bellhousing swap is required, but several sources have factory Maxima bellhousings for mating the Spec V's 6 speed to a VQ for the $250 range.

They are easier to find than a manual trans Maxima and guaranteed to have a HLSD. They are robust for a FWD trans too, from what I understand. I've never heard of a Spec V guy breaking his transmission, no matter how much boost or nitrous thrown at it.

I believe that same trans minus the HLSD is available in the Hyundai Tiberon V6 as well.

Of course none of this helps the typical Locoster because the Maxima, Sentra, and Tiberon are FWD, but it seems like a great transmission for a middie.

A similar bellhousing swap can mate that trans to a FWD SR20DE(T) which would be a nice drivetrain for a middie.

Why has no one mentioned the 350Z since it's a RWD and uses one version of the V6?

Also what makes the Sentra tranny have better ratios for 1st and 2nd? Are they lower or higher?

_________________
mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.

Yes, my brother owns a Super Stalker, which is why I can attest to the accuracy of the weights I gave. About the F40 tranny, I found info on that on some Fiero site where they were swapping in the above engine.

_________________
Midlana book: Build this mid-engine Locost!, http://midlana.com/stuff/book/
Kimini book: Designing mid-engine cars using FWD drivetrains
Both available from https://www.lulu.com/

Awesome! Thanks a lot for the tip. I hadn't looked at this car for possible transmission options before, though I believe for a while this was the only production vehicle offered in the United States to come with a 6-speed as standard or something - I can't remember exactly. I can't find any articles referencing anything like that either; maybe I fabricated the idea however many years ago.



That is to say the bolt pattern connecting the bellhousing to the engine is different between them, but the bolt pattern connecting the bellhousing to the transmissions are the same - if I'm understanding you correctly. This is similar to the Nissan SR and KA engine lines sharing he same relationship. The transmissions are interchangeable, but the bellhousings must match the engine source.

After reading a thread on another forum about fitting a VQ35DE into a Sentra SER Spec V, it seems the factory part number for the correct bellhousing is #30400-8H810 from a Nissan Dealership for $360, unless you're lucky enough to find one from a 2002+ 6-speed Maxima at a Pull-A-Part or something for pocket change. This would allow fitment of a nice 6-speed manual gearbox to the VQ35 for a grand total of around $700. Not bad - about the same price as the engine itself.



Damn right - After a quick search I've managed to find 11 results from a single source for the 2003+ Sentra 6-speed for around $300; much more readily available & much cheaper than trying to source a manual 6-speed from a Maxima. This is good stuff; I really appreciate the tip.



True, it seems the Sentra & the Tiburon transmissions are identical save the HLSD. The HLSD itself is listed in the Nissan factory catalog as part #38411-8000 for ~$550. The HLSD in question featured in this tranny is a helical Torsen limited slip differential. This should be adequate without a necessary upgrade to a Quaife - apparently the factory HLSD is very slick indeed.

Also, after a few more hours of searching I've discovered that all FWD Manual transmissions used in the 2002+ Maxima, Sentra and Altima were manufactured by the Aichi Machine Industry Company. The transmission in question was manufactured as the MFA60 & was used in the following vehicles:

Nissan:

Altima
X-Trail

Hyundai:

Coupe
Tiburon

Ford::

Escape
Maverick

Mazda:

Mazda6
Tribute

- As listed on their website; not listed are the Maxima and the Sentra though I know it was used in these as well, and possibly in several other vehicles. It was produced in both 5-speed and 6-speed forms & went on to become the flagship manual transmission for all Nissan Sedans. The Sentra apparently was the only version to feature the LSD.

I realize I'm repeating a lot of info; this was simply for clarification of the transmission origins for compatibility reference.



Right but to be honest many more middy builds are taking place than before it seems; FWD econoboxes are all over the place for donors and I think the interesting dynamics of mid-engined vehicles are becoming more and more appreciated. Perhaps the Seven's history is to be expanded upon by a new breed of Locost to influence the next generation of DIY Sports Car Designers, not that the old tried-and-true formula is being replaced of course.



The SR20 would be a great choice; personally I'm interested more in V6 engines for slight but persuasive personal tastes - probably for more artistic than practical reasons. I guess I think it would just make it more fun to go a little bigger.

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Well, for me personally my own design is to be mid-engined which requires FWD engine/transmission options rather than RWD.

I found a thread on NicoClub.com that talks about that issue.
Here: http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/400014-so-you-want-a-cheapie-fwd-vq35de-in-your-240sx

Use at your own risk .. This was the result of a really quick Google search without any back-up research.

_________________
.. in the world

Sorry I thought you were looking for a RWD.

For those of you that are I have a friend who has figured out a way to fit the V6 Honda engine to the S2000 tranny so that he can fit it in an S2000. If anyone is interested I'll get the info from him.

_________________
mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.

Inquiring minds want to know!...And if he has any bellhousing bolt pattern dimensions, would he be willing to share?

_________________
-Justin

"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie

Another option I've been looking into is the Toyota MZ line of all-aluminum DOHC V6 engines - the two most powerful options of which would be the VVT version of the 1MZ-FE from the 2000–2004 Toyota Avalon which produces 210HP in stock N/A form; and more favorably the 3MZ-FE from the 2004+ Toyota Solara which produces 215HP in stock N/A form. Even more favorably if you can find it would be the 225HP dual-VVT version of the 3MZ-FE found only in the 2005–2006 Toyota Camry SE.

After a little more research however it seems all but the VVT-i 1MZ-FE [it has to be the VVT-i version] throughout the MZ line feature drive-by-wire throttle control which are designed for economy over performance & would be absolute sh%# in a performance car, which effectively narrows it down to the 1MZ-FE. Availability of the VVT-i 1MZ-FE isn't very favorable however in comparison to the Duratec V6 or the VQ35DE & for this reason I stopped looking into it. This post then is simply for clarification purposes for whomever else may be looking into V6 options for a middy.

Sorry, after confirming that the Mazda6 didn't come with the MTX-75 I went ahead and deleted the 6 from that Wikipedia page. The beauty of Wikis.

The manual V6 Mazda6 doesn't seem too rare, Autotrader found 42 of them for sale within 500 miles of me. A bit of junkyard scrounging could get you a good specimen.

_________________
Ford 5.0 into an M3
mikaelvroom.com | @MikaelVroom

Yes that would be good ... please feel free to share that information. The guys in the Honda v-6 thread would be happy to hear it too.

_________________
I'll keep an eye out for you!

To err is human...
I am more human than most.

I actually have a 1mz-fe from a 99(?) Avalon with everything needed for a swap or locost build sitting on an engine stand in the garage. I was planning to use it in a 2nd gen MR2 (great swap) but ended up selling the car. IIRC the version I have is rated for 210 hp stock. I've considered building a locost around it a couple times now, but that would distract me from the race car build I really want.

_________________
.. in the world

He is not willing to share his info other than to say
"There is no secret. Same as any other [Fatherless Child] marriage of engine and transmissions- custom trans adapter plate and flywheel/spacer.

I have a machine shop with CNC capabilities ready to rock and roll on this"

So apparently that means he has the dimensions but isn't willing to share them until he makes a few bucks off them.

He's coming over to the house Friday so I'll pump him some more.

_________________
mobilito ergo sum
I drive therefore I am

I can explain it to you,
but I can't understand it for you.

I guess there is money in secrets. The secrets guys here have "discovered" work arounds for and have freely given away would easily fund and develop several killer prototype cars and a racing team to prove their worthiness.

Shrugs at least it shows it can be done .... valuable as a proof of concept if nothing else.

_________________
I'll keep an eye out for you!

To err is human...
I am more human than most.

I'd ask if you were willing to sell, but right now I wouldn't be suited to making an offer due to financial troubles. May I ask where you found the engine though? The only thing turning me off to the 1MZ was the apparent lacking of availability after a quick search on LKQ. In all fairness it deserves a more thorough search investment for sure; I really dig these dead-reliable & apparently indestructible little Toyota engines.

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On a side note, what does it generally take to complete a full powertrain assembly besides the obvious mechanical entities when mating an engine from a separately sourced transmission? From what I gather so far I would need to source the following:

Complete engine assembly including alternator, etc.
Complete transmission assembly including LSD & engine-compatible bellhousing.
Compatible axles & CV joints to mate with selected wheel hubs - custom fabricated if necessary.
Salvaged engine wiring harness.
Salvaged shifter assembly.
Salvaged ECU.

:: Anything else I've failed to consider?

Also, if I understand correctly the wiring harness should come from the engine donor - but from where should the ECU be sourced? I ask because I believe the ECU must share a connection to the transmission, which if of a separate origin from the engine, may have a separate electrical interface incompatible with the engine donor's ECU.

For example [if I understand correctly], if I were to source a Duratec V6 from say a 2006 Ford Fusion & mate it to an A65M-R transmission from a Mazda6 I would need to adopt the engine wiring harness from the Ford Fusion, but source the ECU from the Mazda6.

Please correct me if this is absurd - Not trying to have someone else do my research for me here, but before I started browsing these forums I knew very little about engines. I'm only hoping for someone to push me in the right direction here to help me finally decide a choice of engine so I can move on to other areas of study.