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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:38 am 
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Saw this on Sunday...Mercury Milan AWD, with a V6 to boot! I don't know anything more than that. Might be a few years before it is locost...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:00 am 
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It's the Mazda 6 underneath

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:57 pm 
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Location: Sammamish, WA
The problem with almost all stock AWD systems is that the engine is mounted in front of the front wheels and the front differential is built into the transmission. This makes the car front heavy and the drive train would not fit into a Locost frame. The mercury is also a transverse mounted engine which means it would be too wide for our use.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:36 pm 
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FireStorm005 wrote:
The problem with almost all stock AWD systems is that the engine is mounted in front of the front wheels and the front differential is built into the transmission. This makes the car front heavy and the drive train would not fit into a Locost frame. The mercury is also a transverse mounted engine which means it would be too wide for our use.



Yep.

And the trans / transfer case system is a piece of junk.

Coming from a guy that works on them for a living.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:49 pm 
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And the trans / transfer case system is a piece of junk.

16vvincent do you know if they us the same transmission in the 500/Taurus AWD?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:38 pm 
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Depending on what year vehicle, Yes.

Ford is going through a evolution on their transmissions.
The current design has gone through a couple of changes (some pretty major) over the last several years.

Presently, we are having issues with the OSS and TSS sensors inside the transmissions. The sensors are failing due to poor design.
The problem is where the sensors are.
The valve body has to come out of the transmission to access the sensors.

But my personal favorite thing is:

You have to split the case to change the trans filter.

Building disposable cars! Got to love it!

But I guess, if a car goes 100k miles with no real maintainance then tossing it away when done is okay.

Remember, the manufacturer's are in the business of making and selling cars. Not making cars that last forever.

The problem that I have with the trans / transfer case is the fluids are mixing. The seal between the transmission and the transfer case is allowing transmission fluid into the t-case. But the t/case uses a viscus coupling and really doesn't like transmission fluid in there.
We are also having problems keeping the output seal on the pass side from leaking


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:04 pm 
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I am telling you guys, if you can live with an auto trans use the gmc astro or chevy safari system. If you dont like that drivetrain just use the diffs and mod your own awd system.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:21 am 
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I have parts in transit to update an AMC Eagle T5 transmission & viscous coupling transfer case, to a closer ratio, "World Class T5". If anyone wants details, maybe I'll make a thread.
After all the AMC eagles were an AWD, RWD based design available with 5 spd. Sometimes if you want parts of that description ... ummm.. you go to the source.
I never found an easy way to make the BW4472 Astrovan/Bravada connect to a 5 speed.

The problems with the Fords sound very much like the problem Mercedes had with the w124 cars circa 89-90-91, btw.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:32 pm 
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iadr wrote:
I have parts in transit to update an AMC Eagle T5 transmission & viscous coupling transfer case, to a closer ratio, "World Class T5". If anyone wants details, maybe I'll make a thread.


iadr,
I'd be real interested is learning about this.
Thnx in advance, Mikey Bynum


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:02 pm 
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Not to mention that most AWD cars (especially those from domestic automakers) are basically FWD with a little rear wheel backup. :ack:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:41 am 
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iadr wrote:
I have parts in transit to update an AMC Eagle T5 transmission & viscous coupling transfer case, to a closer ratio, "World Class T5". If anyone wants details, maybe I'll make a thread.
After all the AMC eagles were an AWD, RWD based design available with 5 spd. Sometimes if you want parts of that description ... ummm.. you go to the source.
I never found an easy way to make the BW4472 Astrovan/Bravada connect to a 5 speed.

The problems with the Fords sound very much like the problem Mercedes had with the w124 cars circa 89-90-91, btw.



Tell us more about this lay-out of AWD.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:26 pm 
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I'd like to hear more as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:54 pm 
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Hi,

New to the board, but have been doing AWD research for awhile.

The 4472 transfer case attaches to the back of the transmission.

In 4wd S-10 pickups, there are two different T5 transmission tail assemblies for 2wd and 4wd, and the output shafts are different (4wd is shorter, spline may be different as well). These were both "non world class" T5s. The consensus online seems to be that the NWC tail assembly and output shaft can not be swapped over to the WC T5.

The 4472 AWD case was never used behind a manual trans, but the automatic would have a different tail assembly (don't know if removable or not) and presumably a different output shaft. I believe the 4472 was mated to the 4L60e automatic.

I've never been able to figure out if the NWC 4wd T5 tail assembly and shaft are a match to the 4472 bolt pattern and reciever. Possible they are.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:19 pm 
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4472, borg warner?? you must really like the heavy stuff, the 1372 is lighter and its still a heavy pig.
the smaller amc's and the fsj after, umm 79 i think, used new process now called new venture transfer cases, the 119,128 and 129 units. first digit indicates speed ranges, second digit indicates torque ratings and the third digit denotes type of diffential (8 is open, 9 is viscous and there was for a short time in the zj a 147 which had a gerotor driven clutch pack) the viscous units are "supposed" to use a special silicone based fluid(they have their own sump) but its frequently replaced with atf much to the systems detriment unless other mods are made. these units are NOT designed for the main case to be filled with 90 weight, they need atf in the main chain case or the pump fails. then it makes really funny noises and acts like it has a wet diaper. using a dana 300 clocking ring allows you to set the height of the front output in relation to the rear output provided you have the 6 bolt circular mounting face not a "square"(old gm) or "racetrack"(just plain old) mounting. as i recall theres 3 input shaft lengths and 4 or 5 different spline counts available for the input. easy to juggle parts in but remember to watch the years since they changed the pitch of the input gear some time in the early 90's.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:55 am 
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So from what I'm gathering of the info given, you can use the same parts from a 4 wheel drive vehicle to make an all wheel drive vehicle? Using limited slip/open diffs instead of a posi/locker?

I think what I'm hearing is that, essentially, the systems are the same, but the diff(what's inside it) is what makes the difference... So a limited slip in the rear and an open diff or limited slip in the front would be all wheel drive?


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