LocostUSA.com

Hi Jack, thank you for the nice works and yes, last I counted Stohrs have racked up 15 national road racing championships. It may come as a surprise to learn that our Protoptype 1 & 2 (CSR/DSR) chassis also feature steel space frames, albeit with prepreg carbon/honeycomb side anti-intrusion panels to FIA F-3 specs.

I was just surprised to learn that the Abarth SP-1000 was being reprised as a kit car with Curtis bodywork. My only experience with their work is repairing Lotus 23 parts, and have always been a bit disappointed in the weight and quality. To each their own, though...especially if the intent is a very locost (pun intended) DIY project.

Berkeley, thanks for the thoughtful reply. As to your question about how many people will pay 14 large for a set of panels, well...125 and counting in our case. Of course, that's for prepreg carbon racing parts that come out of the oven at about 3 oz per square foot. Your needs may vary...

If your needs DO vary, and you need a higher spec I'd be honored to bid the job. We are only about an hour's drive from you in Vacaville, and would be pleased to host you for a visit most any time. All our folks speak English, even my brother-in-law!

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Stan
Dauntless Racing
You can have it fast, cheap and reliable -- choose any two!

Well the future is unwritten.....

While I run a metal fabrication shop, I've never delved into anything like this before. When the molds became available, Justin didn't hesitate: He just said "let's do it". I tried to act the grown-up and said let's sleep on it. About two hours later I realized that I'd kick myself for the rest of my days if we didn't take the opportunity to acquire something so beautiful.

I think that there's a potential market for updated vintage racers in track days. Say you're a well-to-do track day addict who routinely risks your beautiful Porsche/Corvette/GT-R by flogging it at speed. Now say someone comes along with a car that's faster than yours at a fraction of the price. Say it's drop-dead sexy in a way that none of your modern cars can be. And lets say that it's reliable, relatively safe and goes through consumables much more slowly..... Might that not ring your bell?

And hey, even if that doesn't work out, Justin, myself, and presumably a few other people will have massively cool toys. What's not to like?

It's good to see pro fabricators here, even if they tease us amateurs. We can learn a lot from pros like Stan and Moti.Roger that, but you (Stan) are in a market where people will pay double to knock their lap times down by 1%; an arena where buying from you is money well spent. What Kreb asked was (emphasis mine)......and let's not forget that here is LocostUSA, which is a bunch of homebuilders with shallow pockets and goals less lofty than your fifteen National Championships.Okay, that was a slight surprise. I thought the Stohr sports racers have steel subframes front and rear on a carbon fiber tub/cockpit. It may come as a surprise to learn that when I'm asked to build on a six figure budget (yes it's rare for me; this millennium it has only happened once) I use carbon fiber and epoxy structures. On this forum, we're the guys swapping backyard barbecue recipes and you're the chef from Maxim's telling us that's not how you do it in Paris, which is good to know and very interesting, but doesn't mean we can't cook good 'cue the old fashioned way.

Fay Curtis is indeed using the same materials and techniques of thirty years ago, but her bread and butter is replacement parts for vintage racers, where prepreg carbon fiber would fail the era-appropriate test. I too use Ye Thirtie Year Olde Materials and Techniques for my classic racer inspired projects, even though I am capable of using 15 year old materials and techniques when I think it's appropriate. But for an Abarth SP 1000 body, I think these guys are on the right track--period correct materials/techniques and affordable for folks that just want to build themselves a cool car with classic looks.

I'll concede your "excessive weight, low strength and low Tg" comment in reference to the fastest of modern road racers, but perhaps the weight isn't excessive for a mid-'60s sports prototype, and while the strength and Tg of fiberglass/polyester are lower than autoclave cured carbon/epoxy they're probably adequate, or the original cars wouldn't still be standing, fifty years after they rolled out of the factory.

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Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

Hi guys. A very brief progress report: We have the first fiberglass body and Justin has the frame pretty well planned in Solidworks, so the next step will be to start making the tubular frame.

Vis-a-vis drivetrains, The engine bay is really short. The only longitudinal setup that we could find to fit was a Subaru motor paired to an Audi transaxle. I like longitudinal arrangements, but the hybrid would be a pain, and besides, Factory Five is already making Subaru-based middies, so we decided to explore transverse configurations. What we're designing around now is a Honda K20/24a2. It's a real thoroughbred engine that will give us over 200 HP out of the box and 250 with fairly easy mods. They used to be very expensive, but have been around for long enough that they're now pretty reasonable. So figure on about 220 Hp and 1500 lbs.

Now I have a question for the brain trust: Given the prohibitive cost of safety glass, on the prototype at least, we'll probably go with Lexan. The PS1000 (We're tweaking the name so it's clear that it's not an exact replica) had a single parallelogram wiper. Can Lexan deal with a wiper without it gouging lines?




OTOH, we have the molds for this configuration, but while very cool for the track, I'd like to have face protection for the street:

I'm looking for a new body for my Prince sports racer. I was going to try and find a LeGrand Mk18 but this is absolutely stunning. I wonder if it would fit on my chassis? What is the wheelbase and width?

My car with Decker bodywork.

LeGrand Mk18

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Dan Lipperini Jr
www.RaceLabz.com

No.
Acrylic (plexiglas) is more scratch resistant but still not even close to the abrasion resistance of actual glass.

There is a general preference for lexan having to do with resistance to shattering and cracking at the mounting edge with the potential to be let go at speed, but plex is still a better choice most of the time. Problems come from plexi cracking at the mount from improper design of the mount, installation, and ignoring damage.

Windscreens on many boats are plexi.
Windscreens on mass produced motorcycles are plexi, not lexan.
Windscreens on most GA aircraft are plexi for everything but the front, and in some cases, the front as well.

Lexan costs more, must reach a higher temp to form, scratches more easily, and can crack if oil gets on it. Its main redeeming quality is shatter resistance if not exposed to oil.

No laminated glass will mean it is just another race car that can never be put on the road when it could be considered along with exotics to expand your customer base.

If this is only going to be a track car, then the driver will have a helmet so you might as well use plexi.

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Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

That's pretty well what I thought. I ran a Stalker for several years with the same Lexan windshield and no wipers. It all depends where you register the thing on what the rules are. I have a quote for $3k to $5k for a one-off from vintage glass. That isn't a totally crazy amount.

For the guy wondering about dimensions, It's a tiny bit smaller than a 1st gen MR2, and almost identical to an X1/9 at 87 inch wheelbase and 52 inch track width

You might look at the windscreen on a Ferrari Dino, Chevron B16, xke jag, or the new lola T70 spyder kit.

An opel GT might be workable.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

Has anyone looked into the viability of a VW Super Beetle W/S? They're relatively narrow, and have a good amount of curvature to them.

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Mike - Read my story at http://twinlakesseven.blogspot.com/

Nope. That's why it's not legal on street cars. It's strong enough and tough enough to compare well with safety glass, but it's not scratch resistant enough.

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Locost builder and adventurer, and founder (but no longer owner) of Kinetic Vehicles

Kreb is talking about a windscreen for the red car above which has a very deep curve. At least that is what I think we were talking about.

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12

So pretty

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Engineer: noun en·gi·neer \ˌen-jə-ˈnir\ - Someone who does precision guesswork based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge. (See also: wizard, magician, sorcerer, witch, miracle worker)

kreb - can you give us a further update? Where is the prototype at? Are you currently selling bodies?

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Bill H
Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Neither plastic will survive the combination of a windscreen wiper and sand or dirt.
But let me contribute this link for your further research, http://www.aircraftwindshield.com/
They do NOT do glass windshields but are THE people for molded plastic.

The best actual glass windshields I have found for my own Dio Tipo efforts seem to be the Porsche Speedster at varied prices and heights, or the FIAT 1200/1500 TV glass.
The Fiat glass runs around $800.00 on sale to $1400.00 list price and would be closer to the original shape than the Porsche glass.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fiat-1200-TV-Tr ... 3a49a9a7fc
It can probably be sourced cheaper away from feeBay and of course buying in quantity would probably help.
I found the Fiat glass after giving up on finding the Simca Aronde glass I was originally looking for.

I will check in on this thread occasionally as it seems I may be getting back into kit cars again.

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If I must be a one-man PC free zone, so be it!

So I'm talking to a youngster who's got window film all over his Nissan - including the windshield. Says that he's done all his cars that way for years. I asked him how well the windshield film holds up. He said that under normal conditions he gets at least 2 years out of them.

Hmmm, I'm going to have to give this film thing a try. You figure that he's driving his cars all year, whereas we're only going to be in the rain if we get surprised, and the cars aren't our daily drivers, so....