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 Post subject: Headlight placement?
PostPosted: November 12, 2010, 9:54 pm 
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Location: Port Angeles. Wa
I have researched some of the legal issues on headlights - height - 24" to center of (lowest) headlight in general but I still have questions. 1) how far apart must they be at a minimum? and 2) what is their position fore and aft in relation to the front of the vehicle or front tire?
I am building a middy with a wide nose (27" wide radiator). I am thinking about having "pop up" headlights (Miata/MR2) located between the front wheels but in the bodywork. The headlights (4" X 6") would be about 18" apart if located in the front subframe/bodywork and only popped up. I could also design a headlight linkage that would raise the headlights, then move them outboard, so that they were about 30" apart if needed to be legal. A lot more complicated. Safety first but I like simplicity (while being trick!)
The Fire Aero has a pair of headlight ON the centerline of the vehicle but clearance lights on the fenders. Is this currently legal?
Opinions/facts????????

Thanks, JMR

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 Post subject: Re: Headlight placement?
PostPosted: November 13, 2010, 1:42 am 
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Joined: July 29, 2006, 9:10 pm
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I haven't read the NHTSB headlight specs in a while, but as I recall they can't be rearward of the front axle and they have to be "as far apart as possible", whatever that's supposed to mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Headlight placement?
PostPosted: November 13, 2010, 4:28 am 
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Location: BC, Canada. eh?
I believe that "as far apart as possible" refers to having the headlights as close to the outside of the vehicle's track as is practicable. However - think about CJ-series Jeeps, the older style Land Rovers, etc., which had headlights on either side of the radiator, well inside the front fenders, so I think there's a lot of leeway there. The general idea is to get the headlights to represent the width of your vehicle to oncoming traffic at night (we all know how difficult it is to judge the speed, proximity and position of a motorcycle as it approaches at night because of a single headlight or two lights very close together), so the further they are apart, the better others can judge the width of our vehicle, distance away, etc.

I think that 18" center-to-center might be a tad on the narrow side, although I must admit that on my 7 they're not a whole lot more than that apart (maybe 30" or so, although I haven't measured it).

One thing for sure, though - you will have to have park lights/turn signals/running lights to the extreme outside of the car's width, or close to it. For example - my Porsche 944, which has it's headlights a fair bit inboard, but the signal assemblies are out at the extreme corners of the front bumper.

Hope that helps...

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 Post subject: Re: Headlight placement?
PostPosted: November 13, 2010, 4:38 am 
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If you're talking about the Fire-Arrow pictured below, the rules may well be different. Many states consider three wheeled vehicles motorcycles for the purposes of registration & safety regs.

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 Post subject: Re: Headlight placement?
PostPosted: November 13, 2010, 12:13 pm 
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Thank you all for the valid comments. Building something and not having it legal is a PIA.

JMR

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 Post subject: Re: Headlight placement?
PostPosted: November 13, 2010, 3:26 pm 
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What about having headlights that pop outwards from the sides of the nosecone, rather than upwards, to get them farther apart? I was thinking something along the lines of the Rocket. example at the 46 second mark of this video:

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/at-the-ga ... he-rocket/

Got any pictures of what you're building?

Mark

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 Post subject: Re: Headlight placement?
PostPosted: November 13, 2010, 5:57 pm 
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zetec7 wrote:
I believe that "as far apart as possible" refers to having the headlights as close to the outside of the vehicle's track as is practicable.
Right he is, I reread the regs this morning and it's "...as practicable". Which leaves a lot of leeway.

Three wheelers (and other "motorcycles") have different rules and regs.

Also it's NHTSA, not NHTSB. I must have been confusing it with the NTSB, which is the folks that used to ring me up when one of my aircraft crashed somewhere spectacular.

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 Post subject: Re: Headlight placement?
PostPosted: November 13, 2010, 10:16 pm 
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I just updated my profile to include my build log.
The front subframe has a lot going on and it is also pretty low - top of subframe is only 20 inches above the ground. There is not enough space between the body and wheels for the headlights to come from but just enough room for the headlights to fit from the top.
One of the posted pictures shows how low the nose is in relation to the front tire.

JMR

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My build log viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10658&start=0 NOW NAMED =The Wycked 7

My other build log viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15162 The Skayt'R6


Last edited by Kartracer47 on November 15, 2010, 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Headlight placement?
PostPosted: November 14, 2010, 6:07 am 
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If I'm remembering correctly, isn't the standard required height 24" from the ground to the center of the headlight? That might make using pop-ups a more attractive option; better aero when down and more possible total height via the raising mechanism.

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 Post subject: Re: Headlight placement?
PostPosted: November 14, 2010, 8:47 am 
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I assume you've read the Code:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.37.040

(1) Every motor vehicle shall be equipped with at least two head lamps with at least one on each side of the front of the motor vehicle, which head lamps shall comply with the requirements and limitations set forth in this chapter.

(2) Every head lamp upon every motor vehicle shall be located at a height measured from the center of the head lamp of not more than fifty-four inches nor less than twenty-four inches to be measured as set forth in RCW 46.37.030(2).

RCW 46.37.030
Visibility distance and mounted height of lamps.

(1) Whenever requirement is hereinafter declared as to distance from which certain lamps and devices shall render objects visible or within which such lamps or devices shall be visible, said provisions shall apply during the times stated in RCW 46.37.020 in respect to a vehicle without load when upon a straight, level, unlighted highway under normal atmospheric conditions unless a different time or condition is expressly stated.

(2) Whenever requirement is hereinafter declared as to the mounted height of lamps or devices it shall mean from the center of such lamp or device to the level ground upon which the vehicle stands when such vehicle is without a load.

(3) No additional lamp, reflective device, or other motor vehicle equipment shall be added which impairs the effectiveness of this standard.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/ ... 71.108.pdf

Consider retractable head lamps on stalks. See topic on Leno's Rocket.

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 Post subject: Re: Headlight placement?
PostPosted: November 15, 2010, 2:47 am 
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Wow MiataV8, That was a bunch of info. Thanks.
Interesting that govt. document. There is a lot of regulations/tests for all the DOT approved lights. Interesting about the amount of light output (lumens) that each light must have.

JMR

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When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting -- Steve McQueen from LeMans

My build log viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10658&start=0 NOW NAMED =The Wycked 7

My other build log viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15162 The Skayt'R6


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