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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 22, 2019, 12:35 pm 
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Ya see your tweak on the maps is what I was seeing on the couple maps I found. Especially the timing map.

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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 22, 2019, 12:49 pm 
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They are very easy to tune yourself, no dyno needed. (for normal street driving)

You do need a wideband O2 sensor to do this though.

The spark table and idle has to be manually tuned, the auto tune that comes with the paid version of TS will take care of your driving part.
If you have an automatic you can get a lot of it done without leaving the driveway.

Here is a roadmap I share with other MS'ers to help them get started.

Do your required fuel calculation, this is a one time setting, not a tuning parameter (any changes here will necessitate a complete retune).
Always start tuning with the hot idle, get the motor good and hot. Thermostat must be open.
Don’t mess with any of the starting or warm up settings until you have established a hot idle. (defaults will get you going)

Make sure you are out of any trim areas WUE ASE etc.
Remember WUE should end at 100% just before or very near the thermostat set point (you can fine tune this later)
You should not be using any of trims for hot idle, and you cant tune a cold motor,
You first tune a hot motor and then adjust the trims to make it happy when cold.

Set your Idle manually high 1500-2000 rpm and adjust VE to keep it running clean and build heat.
Now is a good time to verify spark timing, don’t try to do any tuning without first verifying spark timing.
If you can’t get the spark timing dialed in STOP and get this sorted first before moving forward.
No sync loss or misfires are tolerable.

To tune idle first disable closed loop idle control. Set idle speed manually
Disable O2 correction, & always tune on a fully warmed motor.
Add 1 or 2 degrees in the spark table below your target idle speed.
(this will help the motor recover from a sag, especially automatic trans, AC, fans, power steering)
Check that WUE ends at no less than 100% and at a temp slightly lower than thermostat opening. (100% is no change to the fuel calculation)
Make all the cells used for normal idle (a square of 9 cells) in the lower left of your VE table the same number.
Start the motor and adjust the throttle stop so the motor will run steady 700 - 900 rpm.
Then highlight all the cells in the lower left corner, and use the up or down function to change them all.
Adjust to make the motor happy not shooting for a specific AFR.
(many try to set at 14.7, few if any motors will idle there without sequential injection)
You want the smallest number that provides a smooth stable idle (lean best)
Note the AFRs in that area and change your AFR table to that number so Auto Tune does not change them back.
(I lock out those cells when using Auto Tune, highlight and right click and select lock)
Another reason to adjust the AFR table in the idle area is O2 correction will try to steer AFRs in that direction
Then you can make final adjustments to the individual cells in the idle area to fine tune.
Always make final tuning adjustments on a fully warmed up motor (thermostat open).
Then if auto put trans in gear and fine tune again (different cells) blend/interpolate adjoining cells as needed.

Now you can enable closed loop idle and return the throttle stop to just barely open.
I set the throttle stop to just barely open because gack from the PCV will collect around the blade opening and close it up over time.
Not closed so far it sticks (if using closed loop idle).

Most all of the other adjustments use the hot motor settings as a base and modify them for different conditions.
Now once a day you have the chance to make observations for altering WUE settings.
Also cranking squirts and ASE

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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 22, 2019, 1:12 pm 
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The boosted can still be useful up to 100kpa but likely much richer than you need.

Notice I added resolution where you spend the most time (areas with more lines). If there are no changes between two lines horizontal or vertical, you could move the extra line to where there are for more accurate control. If you rev to 7k but there are no changes above 6k, you can use the line elsewhere. No changes between cranking speed and idle, use the line elsewhere.

I should have tweaked the timing table for small advance increases with load at idle.

It looks like you do not have pid enabled under ego control. I see a wide band installed but "simple" instead of PID under wb control. Click on the algorithm selection window then scroll down the description in the notes window at the bottom. Besides closed loop idle control, you can monitor and data log the corrections made while you drive to see where and how far you are off, but you may want to enable more than a 15% correction until you get it tweaked. Imho, na doesn't need to go richer than 13.2 or leaner than 15.5. You should calibrate everything to know if the sensors are reading correctly. You may need to offset to compensate so 13.2 is not 13.7, coolant temp is correct, tps, etc.

Didn't see Bentwrenches post. Looks like he has you covered.

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LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
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VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 22, 2019, 3:54 pm 
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Joined: August 8, 2014, 6:08 pm
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Location: Green Bay, WI
These were the 2 I found and ran a compare file to see the differences. A lot of parameters I set up through the MS guide are very different, in the general set up. I think these are safe to use? Can't be any worse. I have almost 2000 miles on current tune.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 22, 2019, 3:59 pm 
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Bent Wrench wrote:
They are very easy to tune yourself, no dyno needed. (for normal street driving)

You do need a wideband O2 sensor to do this though.

The spark table and idle has to be manually tuned, the auto tune that comes with the paid version of TS will take care of your driving part.
If you have an automatic you can get a lot of it done without leaving the driveway.

Here is a roadmap I share with other MS'ers to help them get started.

Do your required fuel calculation, this is a one time setting, not a tuning parameter (any changes here will necessitate a complete retune).
Always start tuning with the hot idle, get the motor good and hot. Thermostat must be open.
Don’t mess with any of the starting or warm up settings until you have established a hot idle. (defaults will get you going)

Hi Bent wrench, When I set this up through the set up guide there were zero defaults. this thing is all you. I have 2000 miles on my current tune in the thread above your welcome to it. I've gone through everything you listed. Thats the basic install. Were moving on from that. This is all timing maps and afr maps. MS doesn't give you any of it. The car runs pretty well but looking at tune comparisons it must be a miracle.

Make sure you are out of any trim areas WUE ASE etc.
Remember WUE should end at 100% just before or very near the thermostat set point (you can fine tune this later)
You should not be using any of trims for hot idle, and you cant tune a cold motor,
You first tune a hot motor and then adjust the trims to make it happy when cold.

Set your Idle manually high 1500-2000 rpm and adjust VE to keep it running clean and build heat.
Now is a good time to verify spark timing, don’t try to do any tuning without first verifying spark timing.
If you can’t get the spark timing dialed in STOP and get this sorted first before moving forward.
No sync loss or misfires are tolerable.

To tune idle first disable closed loop idle control. Set idle speed manually
Disable O2 correction, & always tune on a fully warmed motor.
Add 1 or 2 degrees in the spark table below your target idle speed.
(this will help the motor recover from a sag, especially automatic trans, AC, fans, power steering)
Check that WUE ends at no less than 100% and at a temp slightly lower than thermostat opening. (100% is no change to the fuel calculation)
Make all the cells used for normal idle (a square of 9 cells) in the lower left of your VE table the same number.
Start the motor and adjust the throttle stop so the motor will run steady 700 - 900 rpm.
Then highlight all the cells in the lower left corner, and use the up or down function to change them all.
Adjust to make the motor happy not shooting for a specific AFR.
(many try to set at 14.7, few if any motors will idle there without sequential injection)
You want the smallest number that provides a smooth stable idle (lean best)
Note the AFRs in that area and change your AFR table to that number so Auto Tune does not change them back.
(I lock out those cells when using Auto Tune, highlight and right click and select lock)
Another reason to adjust the AFR table in the idle area is O2 correction will try to steer AFRs in that direction
Then you can make final adjustments to the individual cells in the idle area to fine tune.
Always make final tuning adjustments on a fully warmed up motor (thermostat open).
Then if auto put trans in gear and fine tune again (different cells) blend/interpolate adjoining cells as needed.

Now you can enable closed loop idle and return the throttle stop to just barely open.
I set the throttle stop to just barely open because gack from the PCV will collect around the blade opening and close it up over time.
Not closed so far it sticks (if using closed loop idle).

Most all of the other adjustments use the hot motor settings as a base and modify them for different conditions.
Now once a day you have the chance to make observations for altering WUE settings.
Also cranking squirts and ASE

_________________
Steve

My build : http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 35&t=17160

MGB/GT V8 5.0L. viewtopic.php?f=36&t=20782


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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 22, 2019, 5:05 pm 
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Joined: December 22, 2006, 2:05 pm
Posts: 8042
Tundra 7 wrote:
These were the 2 I found and ran a compare file to see the differences. A lot of parameters I set up through the MS guide are very different, in the general set up. I think these are safe to use? Can't be any worse. I have almost 2000 miles on current tune.


I think you'd be better off trying the numbers in my tweak. I looked at both of those you just posted and neither makes much sense to me. Make sure you keep a copy of your existing tune. If you don't trust ts or yourself not to accidentally overwrite your existing tune, in windows, copy and past the existing tune to some other file.

Just realized those are MSPNP tunes. PNP is a special plug and play ecu. Not directly compatible. I had issues just seeing the maps. From the msPNP manual:

You can share MSQ files with other MegaSquirtPNP users, though it can be risky business if you are not careful. It's easier and generally safer to copy a MSQ file from another MSPNP2 user running the same model MSPNP2 you are running, but you can also use maps from standard MegaSquirt if you first set the spark, input and output settings to match those in the MSPNP2 base map. There are a few words of caution when sharing MSQ files. First, you will need to make sure it is from a similar version of MS2/Extra, 2.1.0 or later. Do not try loading any MSQs from MS1 or MS3 variants. You will see a warning if you try to load one from an incompatible firmware version; don't ignore this warning.

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=500980

http://www.msruns.com/viewforum.php?f=9 ... 0cced3a4fb

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 22, 2019, 6:08 pm 
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Joined: August 8, 2014, 6:08 pm
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Location: Green Bay, WI
Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
Tundra 7 wrote:
These were the 2 I found and ran a compare file to see the differences. A lot of parameters I set up through the MS guide are very different, in the general set up. I think these are safe to use? Can't be any worse. I have almost 2000 miles on current tune.


I think you'd be better off trying the numbers in my tweak. I looked at both of those you just posted and neither makes much sense to me. Make sure you keep a copy of your existing tune. If you don't trust ts or yourself not to accidentally overwrite your existing tune, in windows, copy and past the existing tune to some other file.

Just realized those are MSPNP tunes. PNP is a special plug and play ecu. Not directly compatible. I had issues just seeing the maps. From the msPNP manual:

You can share MSQ files with other MegaSquirtPNP users, though it can be risky business if you are not careful. It's easier and generally safer to copy a MSQ file from another MSPNP2 user running the same model MSPNP2 you are running, but you can also use maps from standard MegaSquirt if you first set the spark, input and output settings to match those in the MSPNP2 base map. There are a few words of caution when sharing MSQ files. First, you will need to make sure it is from a similar version of MS2/Extra, 2.1.0 or later. Do not try loading any MSQs from MS1 or MS3 variants. You will see a warning if you try to load one from an incompatible firmware version; don't ignore this warning.

https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=500980

http://www.msruns.com/viewforum.php?f=9 ... 0cced3a4fb


Ah ha. Ok thanks for the advise. Ya I do like yours. If it stays dry this week I may load those up and run it. Tomorrow it’s suppose to be warm, like 45. I’ll take some screen shots and fill in a new tune.
Thank you. Merry Christmas.

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My build : http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtop ... 35&t=17160

MGB/GT V8 5.0L. viewtopic.php?f=36&t=20782


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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 22, 2019, 6:43 pm 
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I will tweak it a bit more and repost in a couple days or you can try it as-is.
Save a copy as-is. You might try it as a starting point for autotune also. It may make a difference. Not sure how well autotune works.

Merry Christmas! :cheers:

_________________
Miata UBJ: ES-2074R('70s maz pickup)
Ford IFS viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225&p=134742
Simple Spring select viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11815
LxWxHt
360LA 442E: 134.5x46x15
Lotus7:115x39x7.25
Tiger Avon:114x40x13.3-12.6
Champion/Book:114x42x11
Gibbs/Haynes:122x42x14
VoDou:113x44x14
McSorley 442:122x46x14
Collins 241:127x46x12


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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 22, 2019, 6:58 pm 
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Location: Green Bay, WI
Miatav8,MstrASE,A&P,F wrote:
I will tweak it a bit more and repost in a couple days or you can try it as-is.
Save a copy as-is. You might try it as a starting point for autotune also. It may make a difference. Not sure how well autotune works.

Merry Christmas! :cheers:

Auto-tune works really nice. You need time to make a lot of hits in the cells you want to adjust. So the cells at 80kpa and 5-7k rpm can be problematic. That’s where the dyno comes in I guess.

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MGB/GT V8 5.0L. viewtopic.php?f=36&t=20782


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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 23, 2019, 2:38 am 
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Location: Seattle area
Steve, did Scott have any help to offer?

Just curious.

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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 23, 2019, 8:11 am 
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benny_toe wrote:
Steve, did Scott have any help to offer?

Just curious.

He did as long as I paid him. If I end up going the paid route I’ll just go to the dyno. I don’t think this is very far away in terms of getting it. Also with winter here my chances of running the car are so limited.

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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 23, 2019, 12:18 pm 
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Location: Duxbury, MA USA
Datalogs?

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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 23, 2019, 12:37 pm 
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JPS Europa wrote:
Datalogs?

I thought I sent some? I just put together a new tune here I may be able to run it later today.

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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 23, 2019, 2:36 pm 
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Steve, that's surprises me. He never mentioned money when he was helping me. How much did he want?

Cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: Megasquirt Tuning
PostPosted: December 23, 2019, 2:42 pm 
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benny_toe wrote:
Steve, that's surprises me. He never mentioned money when he was helping me. How much did he want?

Cheers.

$100 for an initial consult and render an opinion. $275 for as much email tuning as you want. It’s not bad really I’ve just been bled to death the last 6 weeks. The thought of spending more just wasn’t appealing. The worst of it was starting this new job and oh they forgot to tell me it would be 6 weeks before I get my first check. :shock:

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