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PostPosted: April 15, 2019, 11:14 pm 
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zetec7 wrote:
What’s also difficult is using a timing light, due to the wasted spark ignition. The light flashes twice as often as normal and, if you use an adjustable light, you need to set it at 0, as ignition advance is also twice what the reading says. We couldn’t see the difference in flash brightness between the main spark & weaker, reverse-polarity second spark with the light we were using.


Don't know if this will help but here it goes. We use to have that problem on our NG compressor engines, timing light double sparking, but this was on the primary side of the coils. Due to the ignitions being explosion proof there was no provision for checking spark on the secondary side of the coils.
To deaden the timing light pick up sensitivity we would take a small piece of 1" x 2" cardboard (like construction paper or playing card stock) and fold it in half and clamp it between the pick up ends.

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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 3:28 am 
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Here's a diagram that illustrates it. The sensor aligns directly on an unmarked tooth. I just got mine a tiny bit more on center. Tomorrow I'll play with it some more at a more backfire friendly time.


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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 5:13 am 
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A couple of other considerations:

Electromotive ECU installation instructions caution against running the trigger wiring too close to things like the alternator that can cause interference in the signal. Did you happen to re-route the wiring closer to the alternator after the rebuild?

Check the condition of the insulation of the trigger wiring to see if there's been any cracking, chafing or melting.


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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 9:02 am 
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Assuming that the engine in the drawing is at TDC, there are several clues to TDC. 1) There is a vertical line on the front surface of the dam, 2) the damper web with the hole is at 6 O'clock, 3) There appears to be a x degree advance mark on the OD of the damper for use with a timing light, and last but not least, 4) the 2nd tooth after the missing tooth aligns with the block rib. I'm not sure if any of these clues are actually visible. but you can certainly look for them knowing that they are, or were there. Good Luck.

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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 10:00 am 
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Chuck,
From what I've read, yes the diagram is at TDC. The hole in the crank pulley lines up with a threaded hole in the timing cover, you put a 6mm bolt in the hole to align the pulley, then with a special tool, hold the pulley and torque down the pulley bolt. Then roll the motor over a few times and check the cam timing.


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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 11:06 am 
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Roadog7,
I wouldn't believe everything in the drawing that you posted. Specifically, Chuck's statement #4 (no offense intended Chuck). The trigger wheel on my '06 Focus 2.0 and the one on your '02 Ranger 2.3 are the same part number. With my crank/balancer at TDC, the missing tooth is at 30 degrees before TDC. Note in the pic attached showing the timing marks that I added, that the crank is at 20 degrees BTDC. If the crank is rotated 20 degrees CW to TDC, the missing tooth is 30 degrees to the left of the front cover rib. In the drawing you posted, the missing tooth is shown to be to the right of the rib even though the harmonic alignment bolt would indicate (as Chuck said) that the crank is at TDC.

Since the front cover on your engine doesn't have the same "rib", you'll have to add your own starting reference mark and appropriate timing marks.


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timing marks.jpg
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Last edited by seven13bt on April 20, 2019, 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 11:22 am 
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seven13bt wrote:
Roadog7,
I wouldn't believe everything in the drawing that you posted. Specifically, Chuck's statement #4 (no offense intended Chuck).


No offense taken. I have never seen nor worked on a Duratec. I am just observing what is shown, comparing it to my own experiences, and commenting on what may be possible. Obviously Roadog7 should listen more to the ones who really know the engine. More importantly, if that engine has the Q4R ignition. :cheers:

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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 1:30 pm 
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Thanks for the replies. Did a triple check on engine timing - all good: timing pin, pulley bolt, and cam retainer bar all go in with no fuss. Repositioned sensor just slightly. Still only a random spark mostly just at start of cranking. Same sensor, pulley, wiring as previous running engine. I'm ordering a new sensor which comes with its own alignment thing. That will hopefully eliminate one more variable.


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File comment: TDC w/ bolt, pin, & cam bar
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File comment: dead center
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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 1:48 pm 
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Unfortunately, the crank timing pin doesn't confirm the location of the crank at TDC because it's only a stop for the crank going beyond TDC. It's free to be anywhere BTDC. Confirmation would be better by number 1 or 4 piston at top and the harmonic bolt going into its position in the front cover.


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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 1:58 pm 
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seven13bt wrote:
Roadog7,
I wouldn't believe everything in the drawing that you posted. Specifically, Chuck's statement #4 (no offense intended Chuck). The trigger wheel on my '06 Focus 2.0 and the one on your '02 Ranger 2.3 are the same part number. With my crank/balancer at TDC, the missing tooth is at 30 degrees after TDC. Note in the pic attached showing the timing marks that I added, that the crank is at 20 degrees BTDC. If the crank is rotated 20 degrees CW to TDC, the missing tooth is 30 degrees to the left of the front cover rib. In the drawing you posted, the missing tooth is shown to be to the right of the rib even though the harmonic alignment bolt would indicate (as Chuck said) that the crank is at TDC.

Since the front cover on your engine doesn't have the same "rib", you'll have to add your own starting reference mark and appropriate timing marks.

FWIW - My timing "gap" lines up exactly as your balancer. You trigger certainly looks stout! What ignition system are you using?


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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 2:04 pm 
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It's an Electromotive TEC-S injection/ignition system. The mag sensor is their 1/2" OD unit and the mounting block is homemade.

EDIT: For setups like yours they make Xdi and Xdi-2 ignition systems only.


Last edited by seven13bt on April 16, 2019, 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 2:42 pm 
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Another approach would be to rotate the crank so that the missing tooth is at the 10 o'clock position, install the crank pin and then rotate the crank until it touches the pin. If the missing tooth is in the location designated by the 30 degree BTDC on my timing cover (and/or the harmonic bolt can be threaded into the front cover) that would confirm that the crank and harmonic/timing wheel are in sync. :cheers:


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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 6:57 pm 
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No exp with duratec, just imho:

I'll try to answer the initial question(s). What you have is the equivalent of an electronic pickup distributor with flyweight advance but no vacuum advance for economy. A controller would need a map sensor for that function.

It looks like a delphi / gm module that was modified to provide a pulse counter based advance, probably a full 30 degrees by 3,000 rpm.

Since it is a 4, with 180 coil firing, the tooth next to the missing tooth (one or the other, not either/depends on polarity of pickup and program) should be 90 degrees from the pickup when #1 is at tdc with the cam at the end of the comp stroke. Can't see from your pics.

Adjusting timing is like a dizzy with a timing light but since you can't change the program, it will shift the total timing also.

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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 8:37 pm 
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According to Ehrlich, these are late 80’s GM OBD1 units out of cars such as 4-cylinder Chevy Cavaliers. He explained it as being units he modified by reprogramming them into permanent “run-home” mode, and designed to add in another 20 or so degrees (on top of the apparently 10 degrees of static advance) over an RPM range from idle to roughly 2500 RPM, so, theoretically about 30 degrees total advance all-in.

I have no idea what he did to the innards (under the coil packs) to accomplish this, and he was VERY cagey about it (not surprising, since he was selling them at that time). IF someone could figure out how to accomplish this, it would make for very simple & dirt-cheap ignition systems for any 4-cylinder distributorless engine.... :roll:

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PostPosted: April 16, 2019, 10:22 pm 
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zetec7 wrote:
According to Ehrlich, these are late 80’s GM OBD1 units out of cars such as 4-cylinder Chevy Cavaliers. He explained it as being units he modified by reprogramming them into permanent “run-home” mode, and designed to add in another 20 or so degrees (on top of the apparently 10 degrees of static advance) over an RPM range from idle to roughly 2500 RPM, so, theoretically about 30 degrees total advance all-in.

I have no idea what he did to the innards (under the coil packs) to accomplish this, and he was VERY cagey about it (not surprising, since he was selling them at that time). IF someone could figure out how to accomplish this, it would make for very simple & dirt-cheap ignition systems for any 4-cylinder distributorless engine.... :roll:

I only contacted John Ehrlich one time when I had just purchased the car and was trying to get the tachometer working. He sent me the plug that the white wire goes into at no charge plus instructed me on the single pulse setting. When I inquired about possible custom settings and documentation - I got nothing. I must say the bell-housings he made are really quite impressive, especially compared to the rather rudimentary electronics package. This whole conundrum has me looking around at other ignition systems. Certainly nothing “Locost” about any of them! Anyway, I ordered an actual FoMoCo sensor that should be here shortly.


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