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Learning how to build Lotus Seven replicas...together!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:46 am 
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Well, I finally got Wishbone to run on my 64-bit Windows 7 PC. It took a combination of Olrowdy_01's and Erioshi's suggestions, but I've successfully run the example program. Thanks guys :cheers:

Here's what I learned: Wishbone will not run in 64-bit mode, even using the command line prompt. It requires a 32-bit machine environment. After some free consultation from several big-box store tech desks, I finally got pointed in the right "virtual" direction (Thanks, Office Depot) and installed VirtualBox (free download from Oracle.com). Using VirtualBox and an old copy of XP I had laying around, I created a 32-bit virtual XP system running in a window under Windows 7 on my 64-bit PC. I then ran Wishbone (in a folder on my floppy drive) using the command line prompt on the XP machine and it worked :) I then copied Wishbone to my virtual "C" drive and can now run it under XP without using the command line prompt or the floppy. :D I still have some work to do to get my printer, etc. connected to the virtual machine, but Wishbone is now able to run on my 64-bit PC.

BTW, I was apprehensive about taking this route as I am not a computer techie. But the VirtualBox instructions are very straight forward and the whole process was suprisingly easy to do. And, as everything was free, the price was definitely Locost.

Thanks for all your help guys. Now the fun begins. Let's see, the LCA is connected to the upright and the UCA...

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My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:50 pm 
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can someone post the example.wsh file that it instals, i am trying to get this working on a mac with dosbox


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:15 am 
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After using up a lot of ink (=$$) I found a way to avoid printing the solid black background of the Wishbone output. Perhaps this trick is already widely know, if not I hope the information is useful.

I copied the wishbone DOS screen (running under XP) using the ALT+PrtScn keys. This just copies the active window (Wishbone) onto the XP clipboard. I then opened MS Paint (free MS softward, look in All Programs>Accessories>Paint) and pasted the Wishbone screen image into Paint. In Paint, there is a tool under the "Image" tab called "Invert Colors." It turns black to white, blue to orange, etc. One can then save this image as a .jpg or .tif file and/or print it out. Ugly colors, but they print without spilling a lot of ink and $$. Also, one can more easily mark up the output sheet for the next Wishbone run. Paint also allows you to crop the image, etc. to clean it up even further.

I couldn't get the Invert Colors tool to work in Windows 7, a bug I think. PhotoShop has a similar tool. One could probably improve on the colors and stitch page 1 and 2 together, etc. by spending some time in PhotoShop. That may be useful to document the final result, but why spend the time for the interim results.

I haven't gotten the Wishbone graphical page to copy yet, but that may be just the way I'm running Wishbone (in a virtual machine on a 64-bit system.)

Here's what the results from MS Paint look like. From the Wishbone screen this took two keyboard actions and one mouse click to create.


Attachments:
inverted color test 2.JPG
inverted color test 2.JPG [ 76.88 KiB | Viewed 2788 times ]

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Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:34 am 
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Again, anyone with a working copy of wishbone, in your c:\program files directory there should be a wishbone folder, inside is the actual wishbone.exe and it's datafile(s) would someone be willing to email me (or post them)?

I cant run the "installer" but the program should work once i get those files...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:38 pm 
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Location: Tennessee
I just sent you my folder.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:49 am 
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May be a dumb question, but i couldn't find the answer in the help section or anywhere in these threads....

Where is the reference point in Wishbone for the CG Longitude? Is it the front axle? And why does everyone only use the default -55 value?

I am looking to build a midi, so i'm assuming the -55 turns into something else....but i would have to estimate the length, as i don't have the layout finalized yet.


Thanks in advance
Casey


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:47 pm 
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schwac2 wrote:
May be a dumb question, but i couldn't find the answer in the help section or anywhere in these threads....

Where is the reference point in Wishbone for the CG Longitude? Is it the front axle? And why does everyone only use the default -55 value?

I am looking to build a midi, so i'm assuming the -55 turns into something else....but i would have to estimate the length, as i don't have the layout finalized yet.
Thanks in advance
Casey
The ref for all the measurements is at the ground beneath the front "axle" center point.
The X plane (a side view of the car) plus numbers are in front of the axle, minus numbers towards the rear of the car.

CG Long is the center of gravity point on the X plane. So if you have 50/50 weight distribution it would be 1/2 your wheel base. Hence the minus number. Maybe they built 110" wheelbase cars? :lol:

I used -46 to match my car.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:13 am 
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Thanks for the question, and corresponding answer, regarding the CG Long, it was causing me to scratch my head. Would I be correct in assuming, for the sake of the analysis, that my rear lower pickup points are centered at the hub? I'm using a Cougar upright and there are two pickup points, one would be +X and one would be -X. As wishbone only has one input value, I'm assuming the X values cancel eachother out and become zero but would like some verification.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:28 pm 
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Trochu wrote:
Thanks for the question, and corresponding answer, regarding the CG Long, it was causing me to scratch my head. Would I be correct in assuming, for the sake of the analysis, that my rear lower pickup points are centered at the hub? I'm using a Cougar upright and there are two pickup points, one would be +X and one would be -X. As wishbone only has one input value, I'm assuming the X values cancel each other out and become zero but would like some verification.
I haven't done a IRS but it should follow the same dimension rules as for a IFS.

For people just starting out with wishbone;
"X" measurements are taken down the length of the car. Plus numbers are entered for stuff in front of the front "axle" line. Negative numbers are entered rearward of the front axle.

"Y" measurements are the height above the ground to the thing being measured. These numbers are entered as + numbers.

"Z" measurements are taken from the center line of the car to the respective "X" points. These numbers are entered as + numbers.

WARNING -- all measurements have to be within 1/16" or better! As you approach the sweet spot of getting the desired geometry even 0.050" from the "correct" measurement (or construction of the parts) will affect the results.

In an IRS both the "forward" and "rear" mounting points of the upper and lower A-arm mounting points in the "X" plane would be entered as negative numbers since they are well rearward of the front "axle". The upper and lower "ball joints" would be the heim (or other) joints at the hub.

Each A-arm has three points to be measured. In order as they appear on the wishbone data entry form they are,
1. The rear mounting point of the upper (or lower) A-arm closer to the center line of the car.
2. The forward mounting point of the upper (or lower) A-arm closer to the center line of the car.
3. The lower and upper ball joints (at the outer end of each A-arm).

There is no "cancellation" of numbers. All these measurements assume a symmetrical A-arm layout on the left and right side of the car so only one side needs to be measured (remember that "Z" numbers are from the CENTER LINE of the car to the "X" point being measured).

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Completed building GSXR1000 CMC7, "Locouki"
http://dmr-architect.com/~locouki/


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:32 am 
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""In an IRS both the "forward" and "rear" mounting points of the upper and lower A-arm mounting points in the "X" plane would be entered as negative numbers since they are well rearward of the front "axle"""
I believe what was meant is that the longitudinal CG would be expressed as a negative as there is only a small range for the longitudinal placement of the "X" position for the UCA/LCA.
The only limitation that I found is that I cannot input a large displacement of the "X" position for long radius rods. The lower forward position is +/- 20 and the upper is +/- 10. Only a small problem.

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My build log viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10658&start=0 NOW NAMED =The Wycked 7


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:52 pm 
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You could try this one http://www.superseven.se/Casim/casim_top_page.htm for analysing cambergain, trackwidth change and RC movement.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:39 pm 
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A version of Wishbone that works under Windows can be found here - viewtopic.php?f=26&t=11985
The file is in the first post on the second page, and the dll that you may need can be found in the thread also.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:48 am 
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I'm near the point of just building my suspension as I'm getting frusterated with the design, but thought I'd give it one more shot. If someone could inform me what the 'Toe Control Arm' in wishbone is, and how is't applicable for an IRS, I'd greatly apprciate it?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:35 pm 
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I believe the "toe control arm" is another name for the steering arm. Change teh numbers for its location and see what changes.

Which version of Wishbone are you running?

KF2QD


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 Post subject: Re: Wishbone Definitions
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:14 pm 
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Digging into Wishbone’s anti-dive/squat numbers, caused a lot of head scratching over what was being presented, so I started digging through all 8 pages of this thread for definitions. Finding limited and occasionally conflicting info, particularly in the early posts (IMHO olrowdy’s posts were the most helpful), I fired up a virtual Windows XP system and loaded the DOS version of Wishbone to see what was there.

Function keys F1 and F2 (Help and Info) had McDermott’s definitions :D , but caused eyestrain to read :( . Doing a couple of screen captures and an OCR run created a Word document containing the Help and Info text. Then came some clean-up and formatting for readability (no changes were made to the text.) The instructions on how to run the DOS version were then removed, as I figured everybody is now using kf2qd’s Windows version found here viewtopic.php?f=26&t=11985 and the "instruction" wasn't relevant.

Below is the one-pager that resulted. It’s helped me understand a lot of Wishbone's subtleties which had escaped me before. Hope it is useful to other Locosters.


Attachments:
Wishbone Definitions.zip [7.66 KiB]
Downloaded 144 times

_________________
Cheers, Tom

My Car9 build: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14613
"It's the construction of the car-the sheer lunacy and joy of making diverse parts come together and work as one-that counts."

Ultima Spyder, Northstar 4.0, Porsche G50/52
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