LocostUSA.com :: View topic - Wishbone suspension analysis program by MCdermott

timman_24 wrote:

Anyone have a good suggestion for a suspension book that I can pick up at the local Barnes and Noble?

Race Car Vehicle Dynamics by Milliken and Milliken (SAE Press). Excellent book once you get past the sticker shock. My only quibble is that solid front axle suspensions are left as an exercise for the student. I've had my copy for over 10 years... and it looks the part.

timman_24 wrote:

Anyone have a good suggestion for a suspension book that I can pick up at the local Barnes and Noble?

Whoa, I would say that is quite a sticker shock

I find myself spending just as much money on tools and books as I do on materials lol.

timman_24 wrote:

Whoa, I would say that is quite a sticker shock

I find myself spending just as much money on tools and books as I do on materials lol.

FWIW, on the suspension design side of things it is really the only book you need. Caroll Smith's stuff is pretty good for the layman angle and real world experience perspective. Staniforth's stuff is poorly organized but has some nuggets in there.

Milliken is university level mathematics. It's not hard/exotic maths though, maybe first-second year level stuff - if that (caveat due to mists of time, etc.).

HTH, IIRC, YMMV, ETC.

I dont expect it to be too bad, I'm in college right now for mechanical engineering so I'm not worried about the math. I just need to get the terminology and core concepts down. I expect the equations will be practically plug and chug with a little trig/geometry.

I downloaded the program and found I needed to bring up the help file alot. It does give you great info but is hard on the eyes.

I downloaded the program and found I needed to bring up the help file alot. It does give you great info but is hard on the eyes.

As a side note, have you all seen this site? I fond in in another thread on this board. http://www.racingaspirations.com/utilities.php

Whats a normal amount of suspension travel in bump and droop?

does anyone have a screen shot of their numbers of their final solution?

i have been playing with this program and the demo version of Suspension Program 3D. I can get a stable roll center but can't seem to get a decent camber gain on roll to keep the tire from rolling over on the outside edge.
Does anybody know what parameter influences this?
Ratio of Upper Link length to Lower Link length?
Angle between the 2 links?
Any ideas :?:

Quote:

does anyone have a screen shot of their numbers of their final solution?

Author:	DavidFE [ April 2, 2007, 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:
Darth V8r wrote: timman_24 wrote: Anyone have a good suggestion for a suspension book that I can pick up at the local Barnes and Noble? Race Car Vehicle Dynamics by Milliken and Milliken (SAE Press). Excellent book once you get past the sticker shock. My only quibble is that solid front axle suspensions are left as an exercise for the student. I've had my copy for over 10 years... and it looks the part. From the authors site: http://www.millikenresearch.com/rcvd.html RCVD has sold over 20000 copies and is being used as a textbook at over twenty universities. The Millikens have worked closely with faculty to develop curricula. The companion book Race Car Vehicle Dynamics: Problems, Answers and Experiments provides problems, worked solutions, vehicle dynamics programs on CD and other additional material to assist in learning and understanding vehicle dynamics. DFE

Author:	timman_24 [ April 2, 2007, 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:
Darth V8r wrote: timman_24 wrote: Anyone have a good suggestion for a suspension book that I can pick up at the local Barnes and Noble? Race Car Vehicle Dynamics by Milliken and Milliken (SAE Press). Excellent book once you get past the sticker shock. My only quibble is that solid front axle suspensions are left as an exercise for the student. I've had my copy for over 10 years... and it looks the part. Whoa, I would say that is quite a sticker shock I find myself spending just as much money on tools and books as I do on materials lol.

Author:	Darth V8r [ April 2, 2007, 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:
timman_24 wrote: Whoa, I would say that is quite a sticker shock I find myself spending just as much money on tools and books as I do on materials lol. FWIW, on the suspension design side of things it is really the only book you need. Caroll Smith's stuff is pretty good for the layman angle and real world experience perspective. Staniforth's stuff is poorly organized but has some nuggets in there. Milliken is university level mathematics. It's not hard/exotic maths though, maybe first-second year level stuff - if that (caveat due to mists of time, etc.). Just looked at the inside cover, printed in 1995. It was a new release when I bought it and I think I paid $80USD. I bought it through SAE (used to keep my membership up back then). HTH, IIRC, YMMV, ETC.

Author:	timman_24 [ April 2, 2007, 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:
Darth V8r wrote: timman_24 wrote: Whoa, I would say that is quite a sticker shock I find myself spending just as much money on tools and books as I do on materials lol. FWIW, on the suspension design side of things it is really the only book you need. Caroll Smith's stuff is pretty good for the layman angle and real world experience perspective. Staniforth's stuff is poorly organized but has some nuggets in there. Milliken is university level mathematics. It's not hard/exotic maths though, maybe first-second year level stuff - if that (caveat due to mists of time, etc.). HTH, IIRC, YMMV, ETC. I dont expect it to be too bad, I'm in college right now for mechanical engineering so I'm not worried about the math. I just need to get the terminology and core concepts down. I expect the equations will be practically plug and chug with a little trig/geometry.

Author:	Darth V8r [ April 2, 2007, 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:
timman_24 wrote: I dont expect it to be too bad, I'm in college right now for mechanical engineering so I'm not worried about the math. I just need to get the terminology and core concepts down. I expect the equations will be practically plug and chug with a little trig/geometry. The maths will be a walk in the park for you then (B. Eng (Mech) myself, albeit super rusty).

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Wishbone suspension analysis program by MCdermott http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1438	Page 2 of 11

Author:	Auto-X Fil [ May 2, 2007, 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:
This program rocks. I can play with numbers so fast it's just EASY! I am doing a +4 frame, so it's essentially a matter of taking a Miata's stock suspension, slamming it way down, and then fixing the problems that arise by relocating pickup points, all with an eye on the steering geometry. Not easy, but much faster than starting from scratch. So far I have this (attached). I guess on some steering stuff; I need to double-check that and tweak it. Other than that it's close already. I just need to start thinking about ground clearance and the like.

Author:	KB58 [ May 2, 2007, 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:
My only issue with the Milliken book is that it assumes that everything can be reduced to numbers. Well, it can, but in the case of tires, just how are we builders expected to get detailed static and dynamic parameters equations? I spoke with Doug Milliken after my book came out and brought up the tire data issue. He said it's available, as long as you're using FSAE type tires, lol. He and his dad wrote an awesome book and I used it a LOT during design. It was frustrating though to have to guess on some very important tire parameters.

Author:	Mrl3000gt [ May 7, 2007, 1:50 am ]
Post subject:	This any help
I downloaded the program and found I needed to bring up the help file alot. It does give you great info but is hard on the eyes. As a side note, have you all seen this site? I fond in in another thread on this board. http://www.racingaspirations.com/utilities.php Whats a normal amount of suspension travel in bump and droop?

Author:	Darth V8r [ May 7, 2007, 7:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: This any help
Mrl3000gt wrote: I downloaded the program and found I needed to bring up the help file alot. It does give you great info but is hard on the eyes. If you are running this program under Windows modify the font used to display parameters. It helps a lot.

Author:	Auto-X Fil [ May 29, 2007, 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This any help
Mrl3000gt wrote: I downloaded the program and found I needed to bring up the help file alot. It does give you great info but is hard on the eyes. As a side note, have you all seen this site? I fond in in another thread on this board. http://www.racingaspirations.com/utilities.php Whats a normal amount of suspension travel in bump and droop? I'd like to bump this: http://www.racingaspirations.com/suspensiongeometry.php Great program. As far as bump/droop: I'd shoot for 3" each way if you can. You can get away with a little less, and more is good. Also, 4º of roll is about the max you should get in corners.

Author:	mookie [ July 22, 2007, 6:41 pm ]
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I couldn't get wishbone to run in XP. So I created a MS Dos startup disk, booted my computer from that, and it worked flawlessly. Graphics and all. The program is pretty amazing.

Author:	wallisek [ August 18, 2007, 3:27 am ]
Post subject:
Darth V8r or anyone else that is a linux guru you can get wishbone working using dosemu. I recently lost my temper and patience with Billyware brand software and dumped Windows. Anyone need help feel free to PM me or email. Now I just need to read up on suspension design and figure out how to use this thing (properly)...

Author:	eVox [ August 20, 2007, 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:
does anyone have a screen shot of their numbers of their final solution?

Author:	Tbird7 [ September 17, 2007, 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:
i have been playing with this program and the demo version of Suspension Program 3D. I can get a stable roll center but can't seem to get a decent camber gain on roll to keep the tire from rolling over on the outside edge. Does anybody know what parameter influences this? Ratio of Upper Link length to Lower Link length? Angle between the 2 links? Any ideas Quote: does anyone have a screen shot of their numbers of their final solution?

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Author:	chetcpo [ September 17, 2007, 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Tbird7 wrote: i have been playing with this program and the demo version of Suspension Program 3D. I can get a stable roll center but can't seem to get a decent camber gain on roll to keep the tire from rolling over on the outside edge. Does anybody know what parameter influences this? Ratio of Upper Link length to Lower Link length? Angle between the 2 links? Any ideas Quote: does anyone have a screen shot of their numbers of their final solution? OOh I know this one! It's option A!!!! The shorter the top link the greater the camber gain.